Celtic Dual  

Type:Melee
Realm:Hibernia
Classes: Blademaster, Nightshade, Ranger
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Celtic dual or piercing
# Jun 25 2004 at 9:34 AM Rating: Decent
3 posts
once i get celtic dual can i re-spec the points in piercing with out getting any penalties on cltic dual or does celtic dual rely on peircing (i use dual piercing weapons)
left axe rules all
# Jun 03 2003 at 4:34 PM Rating: Default
celtic duel sucks
Blades vs. Piercing for Stealth Classes
# Aug 24 2002 at 2:56 PM Rating: Default
I read that piercing ability relies on 50% strength and 50% dexterity, which tends to be much higher in nightshades and rangers, while blades rely 100% on strength, so it would seem that piercing ability would be better for Stealth classes.

Ok. But, my nightshade is lvl 5 with blades and lvl 4 in piercing, and I could swear that she did more damage at lvl 4 blades than she does with lvl 4 piercing. Hmmm.

So is the ability percentile 50%dex/50%str, vs. 100% str. what determines how much damage you do? or how often you hit successfully (your roll)?

Let's just say I get my **** kicked less often when using blades, than piercing weapons, but everyone insists you're better off using piercing weapons.

Also, I'm currently a lvl 30 weaponscrafter, and I can make much better blades than piercing weapons. lol. Hey, it's cheaper to make your own, and IMHO the quality is better. (I'll be lvl 50 today!)

So here's the big Q? Do blade weapons do more damage than piercing weapons? If so, it wouldn't seem to make much difference which one you trained in, until perhaps higher levels.
RE: Blades vs. Piercing for Stealth Classes
# Sep 20 2002 at 8:59 AM Rating: Default
Uhm, the damage also depends on what you are hitting... I.e A crushing weapon is good vs Hard stuff, like spiders and such, while slashing damage is good vs animals, like a dog.
RE: dont be fooled
# Aug 11 2002 at 3:22 AM Rating: Default
"Back to a topic someone said in a previous link about how rangers are somehow given dual wield now adays..
One of the main reasons is because of Dungeons & Dragon's "Forgotten Realms" series. An author (R.A. Salvatore) was given creative right to do just about whatever he wished to come up with in his stories. Before him there was some history, but nothing truly specific. R.A. Salvatore, created, Drizzit Do'Urden, a dark-elf with good tendencies, who later in life took up the ranger path. He had this character dual wield scimitars (Drizzit's father was a master bladesman for his House, and tutored Drizzit, as most young Dark elves are trained in the art of combat). Since then, there was a big craze for Drizzit and following stories.. before that, rangers did not get to dual wield in any text books, but after the novels, you started seeing the ability pop up in handbooks, guides.. even D&D computer games or clones gave the rangers dual wield.. due in large part to this *now famous* character."

Rangers have been around with DW long before ol' Bob there was writing books.
RE: dont be fooled
# Oct 14 2002 at 7:55 AM Rating: Decent
1 post
his name is drizzt, drizzit is what people call him who cannot pronounce his name.
OK a little question
# Jun 15 2002 at 9:18 PM Rating: Default
What happens when you use styles in combat?

Both Piece and CD have combat styles. Right?

So when you use piece styles and you attack with both of your hands. Will a style start in each hand or you just get one style on main hand?

And for CD. If you use CD style and piece is to close the gap between Max and Min damage. Will you get higher damage (min) with CD other than using piece styles?
Parry vs. Blocking
# May 06 2002 at 7:00 AM Rating: Default
Hi,

How i fight now (at lvl 20 nightshade):
I wear a shield which blocks some hits.
I start with a critical strike combo adding venom which deals damage about 5 times.
If necessary i then quickly change to the second weapon and again apply additional venom (5 more)
In between i work with a low piercing style and use a cs style when evading. I have no style which can take advantage of blocking right now.

What i would like to know:
CS has a style at 29 which needs parrying
1) Am i right that while wearing a shield i will never parry, just block?
2) If 1) is yes: What determines the effectivity of blocks with a shield compared to parrying with two weapons (i have CD at 4)?

help appreciated ;)
RE: Parry vs. Blocking
# May 06 2002 at 6:36 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
116 posts
Nightshades can't parry...

Some chars can parry and block, e.g., Warden, but they get the Parry spec line to train in.

So, yes, you will never parry while wearing a shield, but then you will never parry any way..!

The Leaper style was changed in patch 1.39 (I think), so that it chains off a Hamstring instead rather than needing a parry.

What determines the effectivity of blocking with a shield..? The Shield spec line (I think, but it's open to debate), but again 'shades don't get this either, so you can't effectively increase your chances to block either other than buying a better shield... :/


Anegale BloodRayne
Deadly Nightshade.

Edited, Tue May 7 10:10:52 2002
CD
# Apr 24 2002 at 7:36 PM Rating: Default
Okay, I have a question driving me NUTS
If I just spec in CD will I still do good damage with weapons I use? Or will I need to spec in a weapon AND CD to get good damage from my weapon spec and good chance of hit with my CD spec
HELP ME
RE: CD
# Apr 25 2002 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
116 posts
Putting points into CD will only increase your chance of hitting your target with both weapons at the same time. You have a base chance (before you put any points into this skill), to hit with both weapons 25% of the time, i.e., one in four 'chance'. One point into CD increases your chance by .5% (half of one percent)

Putting points into your weapon style of choice will reduce the gap between your minimum and maximum damage dealt, i.e., a weapon with atk speed of 3.2 and DPS of 8.4 will do an average of 27 damage points but a with only one point in the skill its damage range would be 6 - 34, and at max points (i.e., equal to your current level), it would be 27 - 34. THIS IS ONLY AN EXAMPLE BASED ON RELEASED INFO. OTHER FACTORS ARE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT LIKE YOUR STATS, ETC.

So based on the above and IMHO, it is worth more to put points into your primary weapon skill, than CD. But saying that, I intend all of my CD chars to have 16CD points, which gives me a 1 in 3 'chance' to hit with both weapons simultaneaously. I am not putting points into CD for its styles. The only CD style I used was at early levels and was the evade opening style Blinding Rain.

Hope this helps in you making your decision.


Anegale BloodRayne
Deadly Nightshade.

Edited, Thu Apr 25 14:23:13 2002
#Anonymous, Posted: Apr 15 2002 at 8:54 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) BLADEMASTERS SUCK
#Anonymous, Posted: Apr 15 2002 at 8:54 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) BLADEMASTERS SUCK
Don't be fooled
# Apr 08 2002 at 9:13 AM Rating: Default
You can play your ranger however you want, and have fun. If you blow all your trains into bow.. fine.. your just limiting your skills, which you get alot of good ones.
Most of your skills (as a ranger) dont need to be extremely high (except maybe for pathfinding, and thats only if you want your uber self-only buffs and speed)
Ill list for my ranger and explain some things:

Stealth: 16 *decent enough and I get a few specials, like detect hidden.. It will work well enough for most situations*

Recurve Bow: 30 *this is where ppl will say, "WHAT?!" Rangers are the primary archers of Hibernia.. but your last spcl is at 27 i think.. at 30 is fine, bc as you go up in lvls and RvR pts.. and with better magic items.. your RB will increase beyond 30.. and you really wont notice a **** of difference when your out on the RvR field. Your main targets are going to be casters and non-shield tank types. Most of the time you can pretty much kill em with 2-3 shots. Really wont make that big a difference and you can save all those points and put them elsewhere where you really CAN see a difference.

Pathfinding: 40 *Here i get most all the buffs and speed (except the highest of each line). Good for solo and group *when you help the tanks*

Piercing: 39 (this could be blades but I play a Luke :) *This gives you a higher damage output and a variety of spcls to use with it. Not bad at all.

Celtic Dual: 39 *This compliments your piercing/blades. Alot of spcls with skill this high and you will swing both weapons alot more each round.

This will make your ranger able to accomplish a variety of tasks when needed, instead of.. well.. ill just pull.. or... ill just stand here and shoot at it. *Alot of ppl run out of arrows or dont want to waste some of their remaining*

Back to a topic someone said in a previous link about how rangers are somehow given dual wield now adays..
One of the main reasons is because of Dungeons & Dragon's "Forgotten Realms" series. An author (R.A. Salvatore) was given creative right to do just about whatever he wished to come up with in his stories. Before him there was some history, but nothing truly specific. R.A. Salvatore, created, Drizzit Do'Urden, a dark-elf with good tendencies, who later in life took up the ranger path. He had this character dual wield scimitars (Drizzit's father was a master bladesman for his House, and tutored Drizzit, as most young Dark elves are trained in the art of combat). Since then, there was a big craze for Drizzit and following stories.. before that, rangers did not get to dual wield in any text books, but after the novels, you started seeing the ability pop up in handbooks, guides.. even D&D computer games or clones gave the rangers dual wield.. due in large part to this *now famous* character.

As to the "Rangers are Archers!" statement, Rangers are archers.. acutally they are another type of fighter... actual bowmen trained in not just bows.. but shortswords or spears as well. If you want to be a "nothing but shooting character" be one, but dont criticize someone else that wants to be different, or bring out the full potential of his character.

And way back to "Celtic Dual"
Yes, this increases the amount of times you swing with BOTH weapons. The damage the individual hits do, is based upon the weapon and your BLADES/PIERCING Skill. Your CD skills just amplify those BASE things.

Hope that helps to clarify some things.
Enjoy the game and your characters,
Rorn Svunere :)


RE: Don't be fooled
# Jun 02 2002 at 12:51 AM Rating: Default
Rangers dont get detect hidden, ever. Same goes for safe fall. Evade never goes above 3.

Stalth 16... Youll be lunch in a split second. Your pick.

Recurve needs to be high since when you start out level you recurve you will hit like girl.
RE: Don't be fooled
# Apr 19 2002 at 3:45 PM Rating: Default
If that works for you Great. personly I think that stealth is too low for safety. I play a ranger and a hunter as well. at level 33 my hunter has a stealth of counting items, with that amount of stealth You can get right up ontop of someone before they notice you, even assassin classes dont see you from too far away. while I probably wont raise my stealth too much more, at this point Im specilizing in counter snipping in RVR. and those low stealth archers are easy prey, even when orange to me I can get in close enough to /stick on them if I want and release a crit shot into their backs while they are hoping to get a lucky non-bladeturned shot on some mage. The few that have gotten away so far have run and stayed away for the rest of the battle. As far as raising your pathfining, sure thats great, but if the primary buffers know your job is clearing stealthers from their area and you can mele with the best of them, then those buffers will be more than happy to give you a full line of buffs, from my experiance even if that means leaving a light tank unbuffed, so the pathfinding isnt exactally the end all of skills. unless your solo only and with the changes to boost RP in groups why would you solo anymore.
whats better combo?
# Mar 26 2002 at 7:34 AM Rating: Default
whats the more effectic combo:
Blades : FIRE BLADE + SPECTRUM BLADE
or
Celtic Dual : HURRICANE + SOLAR FLARE?

any idea?
pierce
# Mar 15 2002 at 3:47 AM Rating: Default
Piercing spec ranger may finish off an opponent by doing the last damage at contact range.

Without a bit of piercing you would be crushed
Triple Wield
# Mar 05 2002 at 1:24 PM Rating: Default
Hey fellow blade monkeys out there,

When and through what line do you get triple wield? just wanted to know .....

Thanx,
Dathero(Nimue)
RE: Triple Wield
# Apr 08 2002 at 5:28 PM Rating: Default
Triple wield is a skill all blademasters get at LVL 20.. It's hella nice, and it will save your *** when you've got a high lvl orange monster running you down the trail.
Triple Wield
# Mar 05 2002 at 1:22 PM Rating: Default
Why to also train in a specific skill
# Feb 23 2002 at 3:13 AM Rating: Default
There seems to be a lot of questions as to if training in a specific combat skill other then duel wield is worth it, for example training in blades too. Well, here it is straight from Mythic:

"Your specialization in the weapon type determines your "range" - the number between the minimum damage the weapon can do and the maximum. Let's say someone with no spec in sword can hit, with a certain type of sword, for as low as 5 points and as many as 20. If you have points in that type, you could still only hit for a max of 20, but your damage floor would be higher - let's say 10. The more spec points, the higher the floor. So being speced in a weapon type means you will over time do a much higher average damage than someone who is untrained."

So, in short, yes you should train in a specific skill as well since it affects how much damage you do.

I hope this clears things up.

I found this in the mythic knowledge base (customer support FAQ) and searched under "damage." The answer is under "What do the stats on my weapon mean?" question.
Right from Mythic
# Feb 23 2002 at 3:08 AM Rating: Good
There seems to be a lot of confusion as to exactly what duel wield does. Here is exactly what it does straight from Mythic:

"You wield a weapon in each hand. Each attack round, a coin is tossed - heads, you swing the right hand weapon, tails you swing the left. The speed of the attack is determined by the speed of the "winning" weapon. Damage is assessed for each swing based on the spec points you have into that damage type, just as it is if you're using a single weapon.

In addition, there is a 25% base chance of swinging both weapons. That's if you never put a single spec point into dual wield - the more you spec in dual, the greater the chance of swinging both weapons."

The address that I got this information from is:
http://www.camelotherald.com/more/98.php

I hope this clears things up for a lot of people
A few questions...
# Feb 11 2002 at 2:59 AM Rating: Default
Can someone answer these few questions:

About CD and melee skills, does it work the way i think, CD is for the % chances of attacking with your 2nd hand and your melee skill is for the damage you'll do when you hit?

Does CD affect your chances to hit with your 1st hand?

And do someone know what are the % to attack with your 2nd hand if CD if left untrained (at 1) and what would it be if trained up to 1/2, 2/3, 3/4 and same as your lvl?
Celtic Dual?
# Feb 09 2002 at 2:28 PM Rating: Default
I play as a Nightshade and i've read all kinds of explanations on how CD works and I was wondering if it's worth to put points in it or if I should just go for one weapon and have a shield?
Celtic dual
# Jan 29 2002 at 11:09 AM Rating: Default
I am a 29 blademaster on Galahad and I've read a few things about the topic. What seems to correlate the most with my experience is that your CD skill determines the chance of your offhand weapon swinging whenever your main hand swings. So blademasters need a fast main hand weapon and a high CD skill. This allows the off hand to swing more as well. Speed on the offhand weapon probably only determines how often the off hand weapon will swing alone, so it seems the least important. Offhand weapons usually have better speed anyway though, because they are smaller. Blades should be kept to at least half spec for the damage bonus if you're using blades (I am). I'm actually looking for more data on blades/blunts/percing specs. I need to know at what amount of spec your damage increases. I know it increases at half spec, but is it also 2/3 spec, 3/4 spec and full spec?
Anyway, parry should be kept high because you don't have a shield and you get a CD style at spec 25 that requires you parry first. It's pretty nice.

Barervirg 29 BM Galahad
hmm
# Jan 28 2002 at 11:16 PM Rating: Default
"Wow... you are all pretty silly. Celtic Dual is your weapon skill for wielding 2 weapons"

hmm, too bad you are wrong. Try researching stuff or even *thinking* before you speak. Training in blades makes you hit for more damage with a "blade" type weapon, and only a blade type weapon.

training in Celtic dual makes you swing more, not with your offhand, but with BOTH hands at once...
sometimes you may swing with your offhand, sometimes you may swing with your mainhand...

when you see two attacks at once, thats Celtic dual wield kicking in.
aaaah!!!!!
# Jan 22 2002 at 5:08 PM Rating: Default
okay...i have a level 6 ranger and its much fun...what is this about celtic duel wield? i know i can use two weapons, but it wont let me train in celtic duel wield((it doesnt show me as having the specialzation at all...cant scroll or anything)) which doesnt make sense....i had another ranger that was able to train in celtic duel wield before, at level 6...
were the rules changed or something?
Celtic Dual
# Jan 19 2002 at 11:18 AM Rating: Default
Wow... you are all pretty silly. Celtic Dual is your weapon skill for wielding 2 weapons. It has nothing to do with how often your left hand swings. It is how well you fight with 2 weapons. If you are using 2 weapons then you are using your celtic dual skill and not piercing or blades.

Dont waste points in both, just CD

I got a 45 ranger who hits just as hard as a friend who stopped doing blades at 30 skill because we figured this out.
RE: Celtic Dual
# Mar 07 2002 at 10:15 PM Rating: Default
I will attest to this as my 17 level blade master only has a blade of 9 and a CD of 17 and I hit for a crap load of damage with both weapons almost all of the time.
Why do rangers even get CD?
# Jan 15 2002 at 9:52 AM Rating: Default
I'm pretty sure the reason that rangers get CD is the long standing tradition for rangers in general to have this skill..or something similar. If you want some proof that this has seeped out into the general public, check out Legolas in Lord of the Rings (two long daggers/falcata thingies strapped to his back), or the Baldur's gate series, which is I believed based of the AD&D rules(Rangers w/o a shield get an extra attack every round...just as if they were carrying another weapon!!). As for CD vs Pierce/Blade...put the dang points in your weapon before you put it in CD...who care if you hit 20 times if you do no dmg? If it takes you 30 hits to kill a mob, you won't be alive by hit 20.
Is this good for blademasters?
# Jan 09 2002 at 11:07 PM Rating: Default
I have made a blademaster and have been talking alot to other blademasters, it seems that blade skill effects your min damage, strength max and celtic chance to hit with both weapons, so for a blademaster wouldnt it make sense to put blades and CD to 50 because were mainly melee, and take parry to 28 i beleive. After some rvr we could get 55 blades and CD from bonuses...making us a killing machine.
Ranger Melee Question
# Dec 24 2001 at 4:22 AM Rating: Default
Yes I know rangers are archers, if this is your answer, save it.

I could swear that each time you train skill, let's just say..blades, your weapon skill (THACO equivalent IMO), increases. So say your skill is 50, you level, and now its 58. You raise that weapon skill 1 point, now its 65.

With that in mind, I ask this: Is it better to train blades and/or piercing as much as possible with your extra points, or is it best to do celtic dual, or neglect dual and use a shield thereby going wiht the first, maxing out your weapon type? As a scout on morgan le fey I know shields kick ****, but scouts can't dual wield so it was never a thought. So as a ranger with low hps, low dmg, low af..do you want to hit twice, or block? Yes, this is opinion, but..have any of you tested this out?
RE: Ranger Melee Question
# Jan 04 2002 at 4:02 PM Rating: Default
Rangers are archers
RE: Ranger Melee Question
# Feb 11 2002 at 3:11 AM Rating: Default
Lol! Are you blind or what? Read the 1st line of his post, then read it again, now read it again!
what does it say? read again if you need to but ****, don't reply "Rangers are Archers!"

I know by experience that Rangers can be fun as melee char too! Maybe even more than BladeMasters...
RE: Ranger Melee Question
# Aug 04 2004 at 12:22 AM Rating: Decent
*
73 posts
So, I guess humor escapes you than?

Edited, Wed Aug 4 01:22:59 2004
____________________________
Eric Gibson
Hellsreach, Arcane Mage.
Alter of Storms server
RE: Ranger Melee Question
# Feb 28 2002 at 12:03 AM Rating: Default
i agree, rangers are archers.
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