Critical Strike  

Classes: Blademaster, Infiltrator, Nightshade, Shadowblade
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# May 21 2003 at 5:19 PM Rating: Default
lot of crap here ! first maxing envenom is stupid... with the items 39 is more than enough to use lvl 50 poisons.
Then maxing crit for the evade (harmstring) series is stupid. yes, crit is great and you need at least 39 for stunning stab, but either you attack a caster and kill him in 1-2 shots or you attack a tank and have to PA - snare, run, come back, PA + poison and perhaps run and come back again... you'll never fight long enough to use the evade styles
stealth lvl depends on which class of assassin you are. need it high for critblades, but with 39 (some say 36) and the bonuses, you get easily 50.
Bloodflower (camlann)
RE: template
# Jul 09 2003 at 9:21 AM Rating: Decent
116 posts
Agree with most of the above, 39 is easily high enough for envenom or even lower if you plan into your spec your RR.

I'm currently spec'ing to 36 for env, as I'm heading for RR4 atm...

..but I am planning to take CS to 44, and with SC and RR bonus will take CS to 58, as I hear that each point in CS upto and passed 50 raises your damage cap... could be bogus info, but it's not going to hurt my spec to much to find out (hopefully)...

Anegale BloodRayne
Deadly Nightshade.
Critical Strike/Swords
# Oct 23 2002 at 12:18 PM Rating: Default
Does Critical Strike play off your sword skill, right now I have full Crit Strike skill and virtually 0 swords and still do about the same damage as a norse SB of the same lvl (me being Kobald) I do alittle less maybe 30 but I'm assuming thats because of ths race differance... Please give insight...
LINKS are broken
# Aug 28 2002 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
16 posts
Ok ok last post for awhile, why are all the CS skill links up there leading to spell stats? :P
on that note...
# Aug 28 2002 at 1:34 PM Rating: Decent
16 posts
HEY! Allakhazam, i'm not paying you for nutthin ya know!! Get a posting of Realm Skills and explinations, i don't wanna go to other sites for info ;) *giggle*
Realm Skills
# Aug 28 2002 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
16 posts
Just wonder what Realm Skills people are useing and why.

Also, anyone know a site that has the realm skills and what they do??

Claudaria Whisp
27th Saracen Assasin
Society Of Merlin
Percival Server
Pulling Aggro With SB in Mid
# Aug 08 2002 at 10:12 PM Rating: Default
As far as support--in midgard i have seen SBs take aggro from tanks 3-5 lvls Higher than themselves.
RE: Pulling Aggro With SB in Mid
# Aug 15 2002 at 12:23 PM Rating: Default
And Infiltrators can even more easily (they'll have higher specs) take aggro from tanks in Albion... but that doesnt make assassins "tanks" in PvE. The simple fact is that assassins just cant take damage as well as tanks. You may not even realize it, but we healers burn probably twice as much Power keeping an assassin alive compared to keeping a tank alive. Yes Assassins still have a role in groups, and if you need another character to dish out damage there are few better choices, but they're still support characters (and if you take that as a slight, consider: all healers are also support characters, but how many successful groups have you been in without a healer?).
#Anonymous, Posted: Aug 08 2002 at 10:11 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post)
# Jun 27 2002 at 2:12 PM Rating: Default
Got a question hopeing someone can help me out. Im new to the game, but not new to on line rpg. so i have myself a shadowblade, for some styls it says use this style after evade... ? .. how do i use my evade skill durring conbat. i was thinking to just turn off attack and push stealth ( hide ) but then it just says you are to close to the enemy to hide.. ?/ so im lost how do i use my evade skill and piz hurry shadowblades cant get beat on long unless we want to watch the end of the fight from ubove. :)

darkn lvl 6 shadowblade:
realm of Midgard.
#Anonymous, Posted: Jul 09 2002 at 8:40 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I am the man. My Lurik NS Evades hits and stays stealthed to reds and purps.
RE: shadowblade.evade??
# Jun 27 2002 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
116 posts
You cant 'use' Evade in the normal sense, you dont press a button and then evade :(

Evade is chance based; you have a percentage chance to evade (I forget what the percentage is per evade level), the same way as you have a chance to hit/miss a mob.

To use an evade style, put the style on your quickbar, and during combat watch for the red text that says you have evaded your enemy's attack (or watch your char on screen dodge the blow), then select your evade type style from your quickbar...

At level 6 you will probably not evade very much, but as you progress you will find that as your Evade skill increases in level you will evade more...

Hope this helps.

Anegale BloodRayne
Deadly Nightshade.
<Dream Walkers>
# Jun 24 2002 at 11:46 AM Rating: Default
Does perforate artery only worked if u use it while stealthed? i cant get it to work while just standing in front
# Jun 27 2002 at 4:31 PM Rating: Good
116 posts
Yes, you must be stealthed for PA to work...

Anegale BloodRayne
Deadly Nightshade.
<Dream Walkers>
#Anonymous, Posted: Jun 21 2002 at 6:09 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'm glad I work in Hib, yous guys whine an awful lot =D
anal retentive jewish whores
# Jun 21 2002 at 7:40 AM Rating: Default
***** in my brain can only lead to fat banana's trying to steal my arcadian arfball. Don't fear me, fear mister staneld, he's the god of all bells that rings in the tuesday nigh of shantai!
# Jun 09 2002 at 5:46 AM Rating: Default
im a n00b :P sorry for my question , but what is critical strike ? it is true that you can kill one person with only one shot ? thx
Creeping Death
# May 19 2002 at 3:57 PM Rating: Default
I wonder why those few people got broken hearted over Creeping Deaths lower damage... Backstab, Backstab II, and Perforate Artery are supposed to be very high.. CD is a followup style and usually they do more yes, but not for assassin ok.. what you just dont seem to get is the 6 second stun that comes with CD. I love the **** out of it. Makes it so much easier to kill things and albs/mids.

41 Nightshade
# May 09 2002 at 9:26 AM Rating: Default
(quote)Low fatigue cost, use after parrying enemy, medium bonus damage, long duration bleed, high bonus to hit, small bonus to defense (/quote)

RE: ahemn...
# May 09 2002 at 12:09 PM Rating: Decent
116 posts
This was changed in one of the patches (1.39 I think), so that Leaper chained off Hamstring rather than requiring a parry...

The above info is out of date...

Anegale BloodRayne
Deadly Nightshade.
# Apr 29 2002 at 11:32 PM Rating: Default
* I am a 32 Infiltrator with Maxed CS, Max Stealth (w. items), with the rest of the points going to thrust and envenom. (some items adding to these skills as well)

You need critical strike high as well as your weapon spec high if you want to deal insane damage on perfs as well as regular melee. YOU may not be out damaging the tanks but my shadowblade has no problem doing it. I max cs max sword. The only way I can not pull aggro with a critstrike is to wait until the mob has been taunted at least twice by the tank then when I crit I gain aggro but only for one round then I detaunt and tank has aggro again.
RE: sigh
# Oct 02 2002 at 9:40 AM Rating: Default
No, not marginal at all. My 24 Sb has a 28 overspecc Crit strike in Thid. Stabee's record is a 474 PA on a sitting even cloth caster. My sowrd is 19 with items, still havent quite figured out what difference that makes, but the Crit skill is definitely giving me the big hit #.
RE: sigh
# May 24 2002 at 4:10 AM Rating: Default
You're a 32 Infiltrator but your shadowblade has no problem out damaging tanks? So you have both?

Well, anyway - At lower levels this may be true, compared to some tanks, but.. at higher levels, when the mobs are a good 5-12 levels or so higher than yourself, uh.. well, I doubt you're going to be pulling agro from a tank, unless that tank is a good 5 levels below you. lol Also from what I understand both from playing a nightshade and from talking to other nightshades, very few people max critical strike (all the way to 50) as it does not improve perforate's damage. Now, that's not proven by myself or anyone I know, but it's a pretty widely held belief.. again, based on most of those I've spoken with, and what I myself have thus far witnessed - I mean, in the levels prior to perforate artery I didn't have maxed critical strike, one level I trained critical strike 3 times. I didn't gain any huge leap of damage, and I did test the new max on a lough wolf cader (pretty dam grey) to be sure.. but.. who knows... =P I did hit a yellow caster in the 20-24 bg when I was level 24, with 21 in critical strike using a yellow con Imperial Rapier of the Depths which I was receiving 7.2dps (746 weapon damage) from for 246damage. Now, I only made 30 rps in the 20-24 bg, and I perfed tanks, and minstrels, and just whoever, so I don't know that I could have hit for 280..300..or what, but I think 246 on a yellow con at level 24 isn't too dam bad, especially with a rapier (piercer/fast weapon/lower front end dmg) - My specs at level 24 were 24 stealth, 13+2 envenom, 21 critical strike, 5+2 piercing. I've never heard of anyone in Thidranki perforating anybody for 400 damage, so.. how much more damage would I have done with 24 critical strikes then? - Sorry, I just don't quite buy it - it may be true, but if it is it must be pretty dam marginal or something.

infil development
# Apr 25 2002 at 8:36 AM Rating: Default
Hey, I just want to hit a caster in RvR once and not come unstealted. I have been testing my Infil in BG (20-24)and I haev not been able to do this at lvl 24. My stats are Stealth 23+2, Crit Strike 24, Thrusting 12, Evn 11. It is so hard to lvl my char, I dont really want to ***** it up more than I may have already. So what should I train in to be more effective in RvR. That is should I train up my Thrust or Envenom. Which will allow me to solo other realm players more easily. Also why when i use Perf Artery on a lvl 1-3 mob at lvl 24 do I become unstealthed?
RE: infil development
# Apr 24 2004 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
30 posts
If you attack anything at any level, while stealthed, you will always unstealth.
dual wield?
# Apr 08 2002 at 8:26 AM Rating: Default
with my lvl 11 infiltrator I made 191 damage on a green bear yesterday.

I hit him with both weapons, stealthed, with backstab II ... +83 from backstab, so i hit him with 98 + 91 damage (2 stilettos).

so, does anyone here use high dual wield skills and is it worth the skill points?

RE: dual wield?
# May 17 2002 at 8:06 PM Rating: Default
Also so you know, you never backstab with 2 weapons, it's always 1 weapon, the one in your primary hand.
RE: dual wield?
# May 19 2002 at 5:08 AM Rating: Decent
116 posts
Just want to query never hit with both weapons when you backstab.

I have noticed that sometimes I release both of my poison attacks on the single backstab attack, and have seen another damage line immediately following the backstab damage lines, doesn't this imply that you have hit with both weapons..? Isn't it possible that Celtic Dual may kick in on a Backstab attack..?

Anegale BloodRayne
Deadly Nightshade.

<edit... what the above was trying to say is that you only get the style damage bonus on your primary weapon, where as you may hit with both wepaons when you use a style, your off-hand damage is just your normal damage and not increased by the style. It makes sense to make sure that your primary weapons deals the highest damage when opening with a style.>

Edited, Wed Mar 19 09:11:25 2003
RE: dual wield?
# Jun 03 2002 at 3:34 PM Rating: Default
Actually you do hit with both weapons on Backstab or PA if you have spec pts on DW. Because like what is stated above you can release two poisons at the same time or show more than just one hand's damage pts. I have my DW at or around 25 and I'm currently lvl 42. I love it, I split Thrust and Dual Wield with my spec pts and it has been great.

RE: dual wield?
# May 17 2002 at 8:04 PM Rating: Default
Just so you know the +83 number is already taken into account. So you didn't really hit for that much.
RE: dual wield?
# May 24 2002 at 3:20 AM Rating: Default
To the guy above this poster... when you hit somebody you unstealth, there is no hitting and not unstealthing..

Yes, backstab can hit twice. Wait, no.. not BACKSTAB. But - when you use a critical strike, you can still dual wield / hit twice, but the critical strike is with the 1 weapon.. kinda like, why one hits for 100dmg nad the other hits for 20, or whatever.. =P

I don't know about higher levels, but in the 20-24 bg it's pretty easy to kill people, even if they're grouped. And even get away a lot of the times.. lol it's pretty funny..I've perfed casters on keep hillsides inside of archer range, killed them, sprinted off away from bridges/keep, gotten out of archer & invader caster range, and just simply restealthed MANY times - in fact I've only so far died ONCE to an archers last bow shot doing this.. lol.. stealth is great with an assassin, but keep it MAXED at least until level 40 and then decide if you don't want to keep maxing it.. i can always tell who has trained their stealth high in the Battlegrounds because I run circles in very close proximty to LOTS of people, even some other assassins.. with such a close level range they have to have a pretty darn low stealth specialization (trained), to get too close that is.. but.. only a few see me. With JUST 24 stealth, no items. lol In regards to archers - sorry guys, you're pretty much screwed. okay, so max your stealth.. yea, that used to help - but, see hidden pretty much just owns you. lol not to mention you can't really detect an assassin with any real efficiency.. if you don't have true sight.. or if it's not available.. or if I'm standing inside a tree, or bush.. etc.. =).. stealth is a LOT of fun, but IMO if you want to try a stealth character go with an assassin, and go with max stealth. I only even have 5 points in pierce, and I think I'll respec to blades - maybe even just dump all the points into other skills, never planned on training anything passed 15 by level 50 (pierce/blades I mean). I guess it might help you do more damage, I really don't know, but I can imagine that it does - but, IMO, 40 envenom w/ +10 from various sources to obtain LifeBane (64dmg per tick for 20 seconds) + Viper (double DoT poison damage for 30 seconds), right an invader group is mezzed/stunned a time or two (no more purge), pretty much means you can kill almost anyone. Now, to get close to a person, you need high stealth.. if they see you and have any kind of insta attack you probably won't even get to try to perforate. Just my opinion of course.. some guy was talkin about going 40 stealth 39piercing 39critical strike or something like that. To be honest, I plan to go 45 stealth, 40 envenom, 50 critical strike, and probably respec to 15 blades - that is if i can verify that PERFORATE will do more damage with 50 critical strike vs 39 critical strike. If not, well, the level 44 & 50 critical strike styles seem more like a use for dueling or maybe PvE (what you'd be tanking as a nightshade at level 50 in PvE is beyond me) and so therefore fairly useless, I'd think anyway, but maybe not - especially if the skill-up helps damage output. But then again, some weapons are limited by required spec training levels. I think there's a 16some odd dps piercer in hibernia that requires 30 or 34 pierce training for example. On top of that, I'm pretty sure training in a weapon, either piercing or blades depending on what you use, also increases your weapon skill (which I believe is in effect the to-hit chance). It may also help for critical strikes, I really don't know atm. Thing is, they're added damage right? Added to WHAT though? If you hit for 20 normally, and then get +83 from backstab II let's say, then you'd hit for 103 right? What happens if you're normal melee attack usually hits for about 50.. Would your average backstab II then hit for +83, but.. 50 + 83, for 133damage instead of 103 damage? That is the question, and I do not have the answer. If it does, then DEFFINITELY ditch the extra 11 in critical strike. Stunning stab and creeping death seem like very nice follow-ups imo.

Of course there's a lot of things you can do depending on what you like..etc..
# Mar 31 2002 at 1:54 PM Rating: Default
how good is ripper and do you really want to spec to 50 just to get it ..and witch opener is the first move this site and another one have diff openers for it ... should i just stop at 44 to get rib separation ??

"LittleWind PoisonLeaf"
lancelot :Hib
question on cs n' cd
# Mar 26 2002 at 8:45 PM Rating: Default
how bout CD? if I max my cd .. I will have 100% change of swing both my weapons.. so double the damage.. will it have any effect on CS?
RE: question on cs n' cd
# May 24 2002 at 2:46 PM Rating: Default
No, huge waste. Well, in my opinion.. =)

To the best of my current knowledge, and that of a 50 blademaster on Iseult, my guild leader Kaelus (Iseult - Land's End), this is what Celtic Dual wield does for you - increases 0.5% chance to double attack per skill point, in addition to the base chance of 25% that you get with 1 Celtic Dual. No bonus to off hand damage, and the styles themselves are pretty weak.

For a nightshade to go 20..30...45 celtic dual is just NOT a good idea in my opinion. If we had 3.0 or more points per level, I'd say go for it, but we don't. (even then I'd opt for max stealth, max pierce/blades, then envenom way before celtic dual)

In my experience so far a Nightshade seems a little more accepted in groups than Rangers. I've now played both. Also, at level 24 I can devestate "fleshy" mob targets, even yellows, all by myself with 24stealth 21critical strike 5piercing 13+2envenom and 1celtic dual. (Which, the +2 by the way - Here's what i HIGHLY suggest to anyone playing a Nightshade. At around level 24, depending on how you spec'd you should be able to solo Koalinth Caverns. Enter the Dungeon, stealth through first Archway. Go left, passed water escorts, around the bend and down the ramp; then once in the next room where 3 Koalinth should be spawned (Wardens and Sentinels) make another left. You should see Koalinth Warders in the next room at this point. This is the bridge room, just follow the wall to the left up until you get to the edge of the cliff and find the pathway down the left-hand side to the bottom. The koalinth at the top won't agro you at the bottom when you aren't stealthed; they're too far above you. In this area are cave toads and poisonous cave toads. Both are neutral and stay neutral as their is no faction hits. The poisonous cave toads commonly drop Dark Crystallized Poison Sac's which are +2 envenom +6 constitution and have a 52dmg cold based proc, 2 charges, 2 max charges. You can level here and get a new item, just don't hang out in the next room with the 4-spawn - kill and go back under bridge - slugs wander around from time to time, are aggressive, and can be a real serious detriment to your experience gains.(well, I've gotten two and haven't even made 10 bubbles of exp doing it)(IE melee dmg output, if you get worked by yellows regardless of mob type you know it already and I shouldnt have to tell you)
a good site
# Mar 21 2002 at 11:23 PM Rating: Default
a good site to look at is they have a great char. builder that gives a description of the moves, including what they follow, and just a good general site. Candeth HibbyKiller <Order of the BlackRose> Bors Level 21 Scout
Crit Strikes and Piercing
# Mar 18 2002 at 9:17 AM Rating: Default
Can somebody clear up once and for all if piercing affects your Crit Strike. I have been told by some people not to put anything in to piercing and just concentrate on CS and then someone else will say thats a load of Sh*t and that piercing is related to CS and it is definetly needed.
move requirements
# Feb 25 2002 at 11:54 AM Rating: Default
Since leaper was changed to follow hamstring, how does this affect Rib separation and Ripper? what does each of these follow?

Did they even change...if not it seems kind of silly to have 2 different combo's that come off of an evade...Would have like there to be another BS as an upgrade to perf. artery.

# Feb 21 2002 at 4:42 PM Rating: Default
Alot of you people overlook the envenom skill.....Look at the level 50 skill venom called Lifebane which pretty much blows the top off of anything else (you can kill armsmans with this if you do it correctly)and does about 1200 total damage....So if you go up to any person and put lifebane on one of your swords and a snare poison on the other just backstab and run away and you can kill tanks...Just think think about that one :)
RE: Envenom
# Mar 04 2002 at 5:13 PM Rating: Default
To be honest with you...envenom is not worth all those spec points, even with the added bonus assasins have received. (2.5 in my case)

Poison is nice to have some points in as it does help, but to max out in it...not enough bang for the buck. If you go to half level, thats a bit more like it. As I see it, if you max in Envenom, you cant possibly keep your CS and Stealth maxed.

So what are you going to let slip...

CS to 39? not good. With the evade tweek, its now worth getting those additional moves since its a 4 hit combo, and do better damage then garrote combo.

Stealth to ??? anything less then maxed stealth and your nuts...its what keeps us alive. Dont need some archer coming along with higher stealth and seeing you a mile off as a result...that could hurt...

Also, if you max out your envenom, how poor is your thrust now...hate to see your weapon skill when you hit 40 let alone 50.

Dual wield- good to bring up to about 20 so you can then more reliably hit with both weapons. Good for PvE and if you were smart enough to pick the left hand proc weapon at your 40 epic, you really should throw some points here.

Once again, dont get me wrong. Our poisons are nice and good to have. I just dont see spending all of those spec points for it to get it that high. As it is, you could live without it, but has its uses.

RE: Envenom
# May 24 2002 at 3:23 PM Rating: Default
No.. no.. First, max stealth is good. But to 50? It's great stealth, but 40-45 is good enough for some. Most rangers are not going to have that high of a stealth spec, and even if they do so what.. that's the least of your problems..unless you screwed up and made an assassin and decided stealth was no big deal and trained it to 12 or

Celtic Dual, I've said it, others have said it.. it's a WASTE. It looks good on paper, but it does NOT AFFECT YOUR OFF HAND ATTACK! IT ONLY AFFECTS SWING BOTH ARMS/WEAPONS IN THE SAME PHASE! So even if you choose a left hand epic with a proc, it doesnt freaking matter if you train celtic dual wield! I sometimes swing more with my left hand than with my right during a fight. It's random, celtic dual is ONLY FOR DOUBLE SWINGS!

Second, the styles at 44 and 50 critical strike are a chain, that is correct, a chain off of EVADE! What do you plan on tanking as a level 50 nightshade with crap hps, leather armor, no block, and no parry? Evade? Right. So you're going to PLAN on evading in either PvE or RvR, and THEN have enough time to go through a 4-attack phase long chain? ROFLMAO! You MUST be about level 10. This does NOT WORK!

If you're tanking in PvE it's either a real bad pull, hero is dead, whatever, or you're fighting a blue or green maybe.. even then.. what's it matter? Perf, massive damage, poison - now you no longer even have to have auto-attack turned on! LOL! Not worth it? Are you out of your freaking mind? What you're trying to say, I think, is that poison is useless (even though at level 24 and 13+2 envenom my poison alone does 125damage during a fight), when in fact you could not be more far from the truth. If anything it's not reliable enough, however, you don't always A) hit your perf B) do good dmg C) get away, so D) what's your point? Nothing is a sure thing.

Did I mention the -91 Strength / Constitution poison you can put on your left hand weapon? Gosh, that's pretty useless too I bet. I mean, a level 50 blademaster I know has about 162 constitution, I mean, rendering his con to 100.. or 70! Wouldn't harm his hit points what-so-ever! Nope, not a nick!

....whatever man..... I know you're only trying to share information that you feel is viable and might help someone, but, please, PLAY the game for a WHILE THEN try to give advice, NOT the other way around - LOL. Oh, also, if you try to go against a melee in RvR and they aren't dead within your first 1-3 swings, YOU will be dead. I'd estimaate a 50 nightshade has about 5% chance of killing a level 45+ true melee character by way of trying that evade / hamstring / rib separation, etc, 4-style chain.. LOL..maytbe less... In ONE hit from a polearm, nuke, large weapon type thing, axe..etc... and you're DONE. er..dead rather.

RE: Envenom
# Jul 01 2002 at 8:02 AM Rating: Decent
18 posts
your the biggest ******* ****** on earth i have a 38 warrior with about 150 con i got debuffed by a champion down to about 90 my hps went from 1150 to 850 con doesnt affect hp?? haha you ****** idiot maybe if you played a tank class you would know how much con matters
RE: Envenom
# Aug 15 2002 at 6:10 PM Rating: Default
You Stupid Dumb ****...He Was Being Sarcastic...
RE: Envenom
# Jul 25 2002 at 10:40 PM Rating: Default
you my friend have totaly missed the point he was trying to make.
RE: Envenom
# Feb 28 2002 at 4:48 PM Rating: Default
where can we look to find the evenom skills and how much damage they do every lvl? there a specific website i can visit?
# Feb 21 2002 at 8:51 AM Rating: Default
hi my sb is level 8 and i have 4 sword 6 critical strike 5 stealth (a ring that gives bonus) and 5 envenom i shall hold stealth and critical strike up mostly but also hang on eith sword and evnenom but when can i kill orange (if i can) if i dont can give me some tips what i shall take in i may need it :)

# Feb 05 2002 at 11:52 AM Rating: Default
Well no wonder people are complaining about assassin classes being gimped... you need your thrust up or your cs will suck... my template is..
Stealth 40
Thrust 40
Critical Strike 39
Dual wield 23
envenom 23

I perferate artery right now for 180 on most orange and reds... and i can solo oranges at L22...
RE: right...
# Feb 05 2002 at 5:46 PM Rating: Default
What do you do when they add Throat Ripper at 56 which will be the next opening move which replaces Perforate artery?

BTW this will be coming out when the max level gets raised to 60. No name yet on the following maneuver to the 56 strike.
RE: right...
# Feb 25 2002 at 3:25 PM Rating: Default
lol then you put all your 2.2 skill points a level into CS dummy
RE: right...
# Feb 26 2002 at 12:30 PM Rating: Default
look at the date posted "dummy" - twas posted long before the update or news of getting the additional points...

The additional points changes everyones template...
CS damage dependent on thrust??
# Jan 31 2002 at 1:55 PM Rating: Default
is CS dependent on thrust?? right now i am level 7 with 7 stealth 4 cs 2 thrust... i do 15 damage backstab... there must be something wrong when green bandits can do 14 constantly when im wearing full yellow armor... and am using yellow and blue weps.
RE: CS damage dependent on thrust??
# Feb 04 2002 at 12:26 PM Rating: Default
Thrust does contribute to your damage in CS. Your weapon skill only goes up when you train in it, not with training CS.

I did test it many times on multiple mobs. I had an item that added just 2 to thrust and I noticed a good 20pt difference in average damage with my opening move.

However, your CS and stealth should be maxed out..your weapon skill and envenom should trail behind that. If you get an item that adds to your stealth...skip training in stealth the next time you go to train, and raise thrust or envenom...

I will add that envenom at higher levels is not as needed as lower levels. What you get in return for spec points into envenom to me is not worth it. This is just me though and I know some people who swear by envenom...although I usually see the same people in the dirt later because their stealth or CS lacked the proper training...but at least their poison was good!

Remember, your stealth keeps you alive in RvR. CS is what will get you the kills.
RE: CS damage dependent on thrust??
# May 24 2002 at 3:33 PM Rating: Default
I'm sorry, but.. did you REALLY just say that? IF ANYHTING, max STEALTH.


39 critical strike, end of story.

Up blade or pierce depending which you use, to add to base damage. YOUR BASE DAMAGE IS WHAT THE CRITICAL STRIKE BONUS IS ADDED TO! What? You thought that 140 + 0 equalled 178?

Now, in terms of envenom.. IT IS NOT USELESS!

Here's the deal. Lifebane is a 64dmg base. If you need ANY further explaination, PLEASE join my server in an opposing realm, i'd LOVE to own you repeatedly, I need a good laugh. Okay, what's more? Oh, yea, viper, double dot damage. Gosh. 128dmg BASE? for 20 seconds? gosh.. so..gosh.. if I perf for 600, +7 from bleed, +80 from shout, +200 from poison...naw... we need to raise critical strike so we can chain off evade! Yeah, we're going to go melee some freak for long enough to A) Evade and B) use FOUR styles to chain off that evade.. YEAH FREAKING RIGHT KID!

Listen. Do whatever you feel is necessary for YOU. But mostly newbies come here, and I'm sick and dam tired of inviting a new guildie to my guild to hear about how they read some idiot's comments on a message board telling them to max stealth and critical strike, and like, walk backwards in the twilight or some BS.

Get a clue.
# Jan 26 2002 at 8:41 PM Rating: Default
OK, this was asked before by someone and I read through everyhting and didn't see an answer. And I'm curious as well. Right now I have Stealth maxed, Critical Strike 4 points lower than lvl and Piercing (with items) 4 points lower than lvl. Does Piercing matter? I know that I can (at lvl 13) Backstab blues for 60-80 dmg 100 with a crit. Would the dmg be the same if my piercing was lower? Or should i stop worrying about it and train CS up?
RE: Faerie
# Mar 11 2002 at 1:12 PM Rating: Default
Wep skill is min dmg, Crit is max dmg. To be effective you need both high.
third sword
# Jan 20 2002 at 12:47 AM Rating: Default
does anyone get the third sword?
Blunt Criticals
# Jan 16 2002 at 9:13 AM Rating: Default
I was failing critical styles with a staff much more frequently than with my dirks. Here are my skill ranks.

thrust 2
slash 1
staff 0
critical 11

I noticed the damage bonus did not change between weapons. So a +32 backstab was still +32, only staff damage was used instead of dirk damage. Perhaps with a more powerful weapon that would make a difference, but with steel weapons I would rather be able to attack rapidly.

I was playing around and attacking newbie critters after a good dungeon crawl and was surprised that my bonus was in the 200 range. Needless to say, I killed many a beastie from level difference multiplying my damage bonus.

Another tidbit...

I have noticed my critical hits have increased as my critical strike skill has improved. Perhaps it is my dex/agility going up with level (level 12) but a skald with a similar dex was not critical hitting nearly as often.
RE: Blunt Criticals
# May 24 2002 at 3:37 PM Rating: Default
No, this isn't the same as an archer's critical shots.. it is not the min & max. Your critical strike went up, yes? As a result of the fact you just LEVELED, yes?

Your weapon & level increase damage. Backstab II does not hit for +800 at level 50 with 50 critical strike just because you have 50 critical strikes. lol. If that were the case 50 nightshades could run around using garrote on people and hit yellows for a good 200 damage, but, they don't.
# Jan 10 2002 at 6:05 PM Rating: Default
I play a NS on gawain and i recently started using a VERY often overlooked weapon. The staff. Its pretty much only useful for initial backstab because its very slow. However its the only 2-handed weapon we can use and speed doesnt matter on the first strike. What I usually do is poison the staff and 2 piercers ( giving me 3 poisons without having to dig thru my inventory) and backstab using the staff then quickly switch to the piercers and finish the enemy off. On mobs with a weakness to blunt I take off at least 3/4 the life of a blue, sometimes i get a one shot kill. The staff really shines in RvR versus albion. Blunts get a bonus to plate armor. Dead armsman :) I have gotten several shades on my server to use a staff for the initial ttack and they are VERY pleased with the results. Anyway thought you ppl should know :)

RE: staffs
# Jan 11 2002 at 5:41 PM Rating: Default
hehe....perforate aertery with a blunt causing a long duration bleed....Dont think it should really be possible.

I am curious to give it a try though. Cant wait to see the comments when someone sees me doing that spin move(perf. aertery) looking like a Friar...

Now to find my nearest distributer in nice staves....this should be fun just trying it....

RE: staffs
# Jan 17 2002 at 7:21 AM Rating: Default
Why not? Blunt weapons can cause internal bleeding. :)
RE: staffs
# Mar 01 2002 at 10:19 AM Rating: Default
Yup, and you can poison a target with the staff too. I wonder how that comes into play? Hehehe.
u people are fools
# Jan 06 2002 at 8:33 AM Rating: Default
ok this is to all the people who complain bout infiltrators or underestimate them.........

i group in dungeons and i always have agro on me ...wanna know why ? cause i do so much damage the monster is ****** off , i find it funny how people made the mistake of trash talking rogues early on in the game till later when everyone realized u need a rogue on raids to like double the damge of the group... im sick of idiots playing an ingiltrator to like 7 then crying they cant take a monster out in one hit infiltrators have a gift bestowed on them we look cool and we pump out damage a whole lot of it so groups love me .... some people say ur a power dumb i always need to heal you ....ok so im sorry i outdamage everyone and the monster hates me i just wun attack to its goes onto the cleric then and he can fight em dun underestimate ur skills...yeah we have no hps its called balacing thing is the monster dies quicker with me in the group so im not getting hit for very long and the fact that our crits are combo d into each other i just find cool ..and for the idiot sorry to say but because of ur statement u are.... who said hes unimpressed we are unbalanced next class.... god ur dumb we are sooo balanced the fact we have low hp balances us ur just mad cause u dun have the patience to get near lvl 20 when u see the infiltrator blossom or ur just jealous cause u didnt make one from the beginning either way ur a jackass if anyone can come up with anything to try to prove the infiltrator class to suck id love to hear it
RE: u people are fools
# Apr 01 2002 at 11:24 PM Rating: Default
u need to delete your infil dude, you're a disgrace to us. Make an Armsman or a Paladin, you don't seem to have the intelligence for an infiltrator, there's mroe to infiltrators than doing all the damage you can

Archrogue Aegis
37th Level Infiltrator
RE: u people are fools
# Jan 19 2002 at 3:36 PM Rating: Default
If you are an infiltrator in a group doing RvE and you are getting hit... you suck at playing your class. Your job in RvE is to dish damage without pulling aggro. Why? Because your armor sucks, it absorbs jack squat from the hits you take, you probably are not using a shield, and if you are using a shiled, since you can't train shield, you rarely block, and infiltrators are not able to parry, and therefore yes... You ARE a power dump... no matter how much faster you think you take a mob down.

Tanks are called tanks because they can take a hit and shrug it off. That is their job, to be a big burly meat shield, not yours.

My advice, save the critical strikes for RvR when aggro means nothing.... It is against other realms that you will truly shine.

Infiltrators are an amazing class for RvR, and very important, my only complaint about them is... there are no two handed slash or thrust weapons they can use. You should see how much damage a midguard shadowblade specd high in sword using a two handed sword can hit for using a string of critical strikes. I have seen nothing that compares to it. Sure, over time dual wielding with fast weapons will put out more damage, but being able to kill your enemy in your first 2 or 3 hits, or with one hit if its a caster =), now that rocks.
RE: u people are fools
# Feb 14 2002 at 12:56 AM Rating: Default
For the person who made the initial comment, you need to learn how to use a deagro attack after your opening attacks...for thats your an idiot...i have a level 40 infiltrator on Guinevere and i use my PA combo every chance then its immediately followed with reflect (deagro) turns the mob to the tanks... then garrot combo which wont get agro unless your like 4 levels higher than all the tanks in that case find a higher group...

and second for the person until you understand how an infiltrator works and his skill shut your **** cleric mouth because a good infiltrator can outdamage a paladin in PVE can drop orange and reds in RVR, SOLO I MIGHT ADD...just because we wear leather armor is nothing but a compliment as far as im concerned...for we kill people to fast to get hit...oh and per chance we do die in RVR that **** Lifebane poison will finish em off <Grins Mischieviously> now i get tired of armsmen and paladins telling me i dont do 250-300dmg in 1 single attack against Vig's (was the mob at the time) because they knew they couldnt hit for that much

so please...unless you take the time with hard work and dedication to make an infiltrator please dont knock em...oh and one last thing a scout isnt nearly as hard to make as an inf scouts are the copout of the rouge class...

Kuma Kinte
Albion Guinevere
RE: u people are fools
# Jan 23 2002 at 11:30 AM Rating: Default
If you are not using your crit strikes in RvE groups...YOU ARE A FOOL.

why not? because your gaining agro...then YOU sir do not know how to play your class or your role in the group.

Here is what you do to not get hit, as well as use your crits: stay hidden, let the tank get 2-3 hits in, or if you have a pali running heal chant. Then strike all you want...if you still gain agro, then your tanks/pali is too low for you to group with or you are striking a hit to early.

If you are not using your crit strikes, you are just a real weak merc and leaching exp off the group.

I NEVER have trouble finding a group because:
a) I dish great damage
b) I control the agro and dont get it

If I wanted, I can get agro very easy, but then thats just for showing off that you can deal a lot of damage in just one hit...

I cant believe anyone would suggest not to use the crit strike...I guess some people just dont know how to really play their class but like to offer advice....

BTW, I am level 40.
RE: u people are fools
# Jan 28 2002 at 9:17 PM Rating: Default
Another way to prevent the aggro is that nice little thrust technique called tranquilize. Yes is may seem like a useless skill..but if you get hit once..just tranq it next attack and you won't have to worry for the rest of the fight..
RE: u people are fools
# Jan 23 2002 at 5:18 PM Rating: Default
Same person as posted above, and you are correct, I agree with you. I did not mean to say do not use your critical strikes, i simply meant to say learn to control your aggro.

I do use my critical strikes without pulling aggro, it is definitely possible. Sorry if I caused any confusion.

Post was meant for the archers that feel they need to hit the mob 3 or 4 times before it gets to the group, and assassins that use backstab or perf artery or any string of crits before the main tank can gain aggro.

The only advice I was offering was, dont be a power dump, it will only bring your group more downtime.
RE: u people are fools
# Jan 07 2002 at 4:37 PM Rating: Default
My 2cp:

I am a 32 Infiltrator with Maxed CS, Max Stealth (w. items), with the rest of the points going to thrust and envenom. (some items adding to these skills as well)

Unbuffed w. items stats: Dex=147. str=74

I feel the damage is not enough. I gain agro very quick even for a weak hit of 50 on perf. artery. It is the bleed that causes the high agro.

I think each of you should compare hits with an armsman and scout or smite cleric.

Smite cleric- 200pts per cast

Armsman- (yes should deal good damage, but my bests opening move should not be what he can do on repeated attack moves) 100-200 pts with pole-slash weapon

Scout- 200pts for an arrow shot-crit.

I hit for 200 pts on a yellow only if I crit. And to tell the truth, crit hits should be much more common with mine maxed out without item help.

Item using for combat- lustrous adament dirk 10.5 2.2 20%

I feel that our follow up moves are weak in damage, in particular the ones that follow an evade. I do evade fairly well (can get as high as 4 on a red)

I havent been able to solo a yellow for quite a while even with using poisons and hitting a good opening move. And this is not due to poor armor, or lack of poison/attacks missing.

I feel we are still weak in melee even though it may appear we are dealing damage. check the numbers with those in your group and see what they were hitting for. You may have gained agro, but it sure wasnt because you were out damaging others. It was the attack type that caused a long bleed (7 pts tick for a major bleed...big deal) (16pts for leathal poison...big deal there too)

RE: u people are fools
# Jan 19 2002 at 3:48 PM Rating: Default
your weapons are much faster than a smite clerics casting, or an armsmans pole arm, that is why you are not hitting as hard, if you draw aggro and are not using a taunt style, it is most likley because you are out damaging your group mates, you just dish it out in multiple small quantities, as opposed to one big hit.

If you want your critical strikes to do more damage use a slower weapon in your main hand, it will hit harder, but that is a trade off since faster weapons will alow you to do more damage over time.

RE: u people are fools
# Jan 06 2002 at 11:45 PM Rating: Default
i believe you but i guess everyones entitled to their rants i was kinda worried around teens but i can say that at level 31 im happy with how everythings worked out i perf artery a invader for about 200 damage (and he was yello so not bad) and got a grey for 650

RE: u people are fools
# May 24 2002 at 3:57 PM Rating: Default
OKAY..Time to take vacation from the boards again. You're patting yourself on the back for a 200 damage perf at level 31? ON a yellow? Dude, I can hit harder than that at level 24 and I don't even have maxed crit strikes and my piercing is 5.. jezuz.. k.. you people have all of nothing written here that I need to read - later
weapon hits negative
# Jan 04 2002 at 8:24 AM Rating: Default
Why do all my normal weapon hits have a negative number behind them as in hit for 15(-2)
RE: weapon hits negative
# Jan 04 2002 at 5:20 PM Rating: Default
Depends on what you're fighting...if u use pierce and are fighting wolves, you'll get a +, but if u fight undead with pierce (skeletons, ghostly siabras) you'll get a negative.
How dumb can this be?
# Dec 31 2001 at 6:33 PM Rating: Default
Okay, what I want to know is why the second and third hits of a combo do such little damage? The way I see it, you can either go all critical strike, and do a combo of Good damage, okay damage, and "why did I bother getting this skill" damage, which can only be done if your hidden, by the way. Or you can go up to backstab 2, and then put the rest into what ever weapon you want, and do a good damage, good damage, good damage, good damage, (repeats till you run out of End), which can be done at any time, unless your revealed, then just skip attack one. Wake up Mythic and make these eledged combos worth the time you spent comming up with them!
CS Change!
# Dec 26 2001 at 12:32 PM Rating: Default
Since the new patch has been implemented Leaper has been changed to work off of a successful Rib Separation and Ripper works off of Leaper. As you know Rib Sep. works off of Hamstring, which is started by evading. Kinda strange but powerful 4 hit combo. But I think i'll only go to 39 still with CS and max my stealth.
RE: CS Change!
# Jan 12 2002 at 12:06 AM Rating: Decent
11 posts
A couple of patches ago, Mythic stated that training in a specialization beyond the point at which you get a style will increase the amount of damage that style does. This means that a person who just trains enough to pick up the Backstab II combo won't do as much damage with it as a person who maxes CS. Your logic is good if you still wish to be strong in PvE, but to become a master of assassination, you should max out your CS.

just my 2 copper,
RE: CS Change!
# May 24 2002 at 4:03 PM Rating: Default
Do you have any idea how many times I've heard about someone misquoting mythic? Listen, I read ALL the patch messages and I don't remember EVER hearing this since december of 2001. Furthermore, your wrong - I tried it by not training for 4 consecutive levels, my damage increase was minimal from 15-19 after finally catching up my critical strikes.

To just add insult to injury, if you go from 39 critical strike to 50 critical strike you're going to destroy your weapons, envenom, or stealth spec level as a result making either your average damage unreliable (including Perf), no ability to damage outside melee contact (no going after tanks for you), or maybe you'll just be discovered frequently by other stealthers.

Even if you're right and I'm wrong, mythic is implementing a respec soon, so it doesn't really matter.
RE: CS Change!
# May 25 2002 at 4:20 AM Rating: Decent
116 posts
Quote... "I read ALL the patch messages and I don't remember EVER hearing this since december of 2001"... hmm... you gotta check the dates on those posts, the one you refer to was made in Jan 2002...

eek.. :)

Anegale BloodRayne
Deadly Nightshade.
Creeping Death
# Dec 21 2001 at 1:30 AM Rating: Default
Perforate Artery = Medium fatigue cost, use from in front of enemy, medium bonus damage, causes long duration bleed, high bonus to hit, medium penalty to defense, use while hidden

Creeping Death = Low fatigue cost, use after Perforate Artery, very high bonus damage, medium duration stun, high bonus to hit

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't Creeping Death do more damage than Perforate Artery? Or maybe its just me because after not having Leaper or any new style for a long time....I finally got Creeping Death which I though would make my character. But instead it broke me, I can no longer play an least until I get over being crushed when I saw the unexpected damage of Creeping death.

It does about 1/5 the damage of Perforate Artery!?

from a lvl 34 nightshade
RE: Creeping Death
# May 07 2002 at 2:03 PM Rating: Default
It does seem to me that Creeping Death should do more damage than PA. Since I'm planning to keep CS maxed and make use of Creeping Death as soon as possible, I'm very concerned about that. I would love to hear from a higher NS about the damage of creeping death- perhaps the damage increases faster per level than PA?

Have you been getting the same sort of results with Achilles Heel?

Geriat, 24 NS, Percival
jee Whiz.
# Dec 05 2001 at 3:32 PM Rating: Default
Make Spells Make Spells Make Spells
Oh ya Make Crit hits do better damage or maybe evade give af bonus in addition to gaining ability to evade
(would maybe make us (as in rogues) not die as fast when we backstab or whatever in a group and get the aggro on us)

Level 19
RE: jee Whiz.
# Dec 05 2001 at 3:34 PM Rating: Default
ya forgot to say heeh Anyway on a sidenote im a shadowblade spells havent been implemented yet...
(for all u rogues with the DD Cr@p (i looked at it talk about bad damage....))
RE: jee Whiz.
# Dec 17 2001 at 5:40 PM Rating: Default
It's not like NS's go around using the spell on's mainly for should suck
RE: jee Whiz.
# Feb 14 2002 at 7:33 AM Rating: Default
Why should an Assasin be able to pull monsters ?

And if u pulled it, where should the monster run ? It cant see you, cause u are hidden to place ur combo....

If u want to be a tank. Take a warrior class....

I think magery is not a neccesary for us Assasines. U will get pulling and buffing within any group u are fighting with. Let others do this dummy work and specialize on ur own buisiness :
Kill the monster out of the dark.

RE: jee Whiz.
# Apr 02 2002 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
38 posts
spells... the only rogue class to get them are the Hibernian Nightshades. why? it's our version of Albions Crossbows and Midgard's Thrown Weapons. for when you're soloing and need to pull an agro mob away from a group of other agro mobs. simple as that. other than that, i agree with you. we don't need spells, we get our dmg output from our CS combo's and poisons.

lvl 15 Nightshade
Lancelot Hibernia
60 NE Rogue
Staghelm Server
Infiltrator of Albion
Mordred Server
Rougefox of the Phoenix(Retired)
Barbarian Guardian of Qeynos
Befallen Server
Exarch Rouguefox of the Phoenix(Retired)
Archon of Mithaniel Marr
Brell Serilis server
from 25-34 no new
# Dec 04 2001 at 4:16 AM Rating: Default
Ok so theres no replacement for leaper. So I get to use the styles I have for another 10 levels. Yippy f*cking kiyay. I just got achilles heel and look forward to new styles, not to suddenly realize this..WTF
Time to work on an alternate character until something is implemented to replace these styles.

Spoken from a LVL 25 NS...
Critical strike and Thrusting
# Dec 01 2001 at 11:46 AM Rating: Default
Is the success in hitting with a critical strike dependant on your associated weapon skill (such as thrusting)?
This style is messed up
# Nov 27 2001 at 7:01 AM Rating: Default
All I got to say is that these styles are the most messed up I've seen. I hope they fix them soon.
Leaper and Ripper
# Nov 22 2001 at 10:50 PM Rating: Default
Leaper and Ripper were removed because they were impossible to perform. You may have noticed that the opening for Ripper was Leaper, and the opening for Leaper was Parry. Unfortunately, assassin classes do not get the ability to Parry. That's why these styles were removed.
# Nov 20 2001 at 11:56 AM Rating: Default
I am having problems deciding how to spend my skill points per lvl. Not because of the choices, more because of the fact that I do not know if I need to keep piercing and celtic duel or jsut celticduel? Any ideas?
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