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Steam: Paid ModsFollow

#1 Apr 23 2015 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent

Quote:
Introducing New Ways to Support Workshop Creators
The Steam Workshop has always been a great place for sharing mods, maps, and all kinds of items that you’ve created. Now it's also a great place for selling those creations.

With a new, streamlined process for listing and selling your creations, the Steam Workshop now supports buying mods directly from the Workshop, to be immediately usable in game.

Discover the best new mods for your game and enable the creators to continue making new items and experiences.
#2 Apr 23 2015 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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Uh huh...can't wait for the $5 item reskins.
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#3 Apr 23 2015 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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No doubt there'll be a ton of crap. But if this incentivizes some truly great content, I'm cool with that. Just caveat emptor and all that.
#4 Apr 23 2015 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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#5 Apr 23 2015 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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At least they have a 24 hour refund policy for the Workshop.
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#6 Apr 24 2015 at 5:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
At least they have a 24 hour refund policy for the Workshop.

True, although it's a 24 hour refund for Steam credit, not your money back.

... I mean, yeah, we're still going to spend it on Steam games, but still!

The other concern I've heard raised is that Steam takes 75% of the cut; modders only get 25%. I mean, sure, they still make some money, but it's not going to be much. Perhaps enough for the modder to buy a new game or two, I guess? Unless it's an insanely popular mod, in which case people were probably donating already...

Edited, Apr 24th 2015 7:49pm by LockeColeMA
#7 Apr 24 2015 at 5:50 PM Rating: Good
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LockeColeMA wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
At least they have a 24 hour refund policy for the Workshop.

True, although it's a 24 hour refund for Steam credit, not your money back.

... I mean, yeah, we're still going to spend it on Steam games, but still!


I'm curious though, if like the Market, it will only be purchasable with Wallet Funds anyway, not directly using Credit Cards. That way Steam forces you to buy at least 5 dollars at a time and avoids high percentage credit card fees for low value transactions, same reason why the Market is Wallet only.
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#8 Apr 24 2015 at 5:55 PM Rating: Good
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LockeColeMA wrote:
The other concern I've heard raised is that Steam takes 75% of the cut; modders only get 25%. I mean, sure, they still make some money, but it's not going to be much. Perhaps enough for the modder to buy a new game or two, I guess? Unless it's an insanely popular mod, in which case people were probably donating already...


Are those hard numbers, or just rumours? I didn't see anything on the FAQ page, and didn't look too deep into any other pages.

I'm imagining that there has to be a cut for the game developer in there, like there is with trading card and market purchases. (Supposedly 10% Developer, 5% Steam, the rest to the seller.). Otherwise there wouldn't be any incentive for developers to add modding capabilities and agree the the setup

Edit:
That was meant to be added to the previous reply.

Edited, Apr 24th 2015 7:57pm by TirithRR
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#9 Apr 24 2015 at 6:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
LockeColeMA wrote:
The other concern I've heard raised is that Steam takes 75% of the cut; modders only get 25%. I mean, sure, they still make some money, but it's not going to be much. Perhaps enough for the modder to buy a new game or two, I guess? Unless it's an insanely popular mod, in which case people were probably donating already...


Are those hard numbers, or just rumours? I didn't see anything on the FAQ page, and didn't look too deep into any other pages.


Surprisingly hard to find an answer! I was looking at this link: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/33mpuv/valve_takes_75_of_the_sales_that_are_made_from/

/u/eegras wrote:
When an item is sold via the Steam Workshop, revenue is shared between Valve (for transaction costs, fraud, bandwidth & hosting costs, building & supporting the Steam platform), the game developer (for creation of the game and the game's universe, the marketing to build an audience, the included assets, and any included modding or editing tools), and the item creator (including any specified contributors). The percentage of revenue an item creator receives from direct sales of their item in this Workshop is 25%, as stipulated in the Supplemental Workshop Terms. Your individual share may be smaller if you have added other contributors that share in the royalty payments.


So it looks like the modder can make, at most, 25% of the amount sold, but that's not to say that Valve pockets 75%.
#11 Apr 24 2015 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
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I guess that is understandable. Valve's not pocketing 75%, I'd imagine the Developer/Publisher is taking the largest portion. They did create the game after all.

If you were Bethesda, and Valve approached you about them letting their users sell stuff for profit from your games, you'd probably want to make sure you got a good cut.

Edit:
I am not too keen on the idea of a store front for mods like this though. Modders asking for donations, I'm fine with that. The idea of a store front dedicated to selling mods... no thanks. Seems like it changes the mentality too much.

From a "Hey, I can make a mod awesome enough that people will be willing to donate to me."
To a "Hey, I can make any mod I want a put it on this Store to make some quick cash!"

Edited, Apr 24th 2015 8:39pm by TirithRR
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#12 Apr 24 2015 at 7:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:

I am not too keen on the idea of a store front for mods like this though. Modders asking for donations, I'm fine with that. The idea of a store front dedicated to selling mods... no thanks. Seems like it changes the mentality too much.

From a "Hey, I can make a mod awesome enough that people will be willing to donate to me."
To a "Hey, I can make any mod I want a put it on this Store to make some quick cash!"


I'm feeling the same. I wonder how much of that is based on going through this transition, though. We've had awesome mods for games like Skyrim, for free, for years now... that's what we're used to and expect. Who's to say if in a few more years this will be acknowledged as common?

That said, I would totally shell out $10 when Enderal comes out (potentially in June of 2015).
#13 Apr 24 2015 at 7:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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From what I was reading earlier, the developer gets to set their own percentage and Valve takes 25%, same as they do for other community created stuff (TF2 hats and whatnot). In this case, Bethesda decided on 50% for them, plus Valve's 25% leaving 25% for the mod creator. In theory, a developer could choose to take 5% and leave 70% for the modder (after Gaben's tithe).
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#14 Apr 26 2015 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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My concern now is this seems to have a potential to kill the non-Steam Workshop mod scene for Steamworks games.

I imagine that if it takes root, what would the incentive be for uploading mods to places like Nexus if you can go to the Steam Workshop and make guaranteed money rather than just hopeful donations?

And then of course, what about copy protection? If Skyrim's Workshop has a bunch of paid mods, what happens when people take the mods and pirate them, and install them via third party methods into legitimate purchased and owned Skyrim installs on a Steam account? Will Valve then have to look at copy protection for mods on Steam games? Effectively killing non-Workshop mods for Steam games?

I've never installed a Skyrim mod using the Workshop, I've always used Nexus.

Mods will effectively become Steam DLC. Non-Steam mods won't work with Steam purchased games, same as if you buy a game on Steam, you can't get the DLC from other places like Origin. (Actual games that require Steam regardless of where you purchase them not counting, of course).

In the end, this does not bode well for the future of modding Steam games. At least, from sources outside of Steam.

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Let's assume for a second that we are stupidly greedy. So far the paid mods have generated $10K total. That's like 1% of the cost of the incremental email the program has generated for Valve employees (yes, I mean pissing off the Internet costs you a million bucks in just a couple of days). That's not stupidly greedy, that's stupidly stupid.


I think there's one thing I can agree with in his comment so far about this Skyrim Paid Workshop.

Quote:
that's stupidly stupid.


Edited, Apr 26th 2015 7:15pm by TirithRR
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#15 Apr 27 2015 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
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That didn't last long.

Quote:
We've done this because it's clear we didn't understand exactly what we were doing.


Edit:
I will say though, that it lasted much longer than it should have...

Edited, Apr 27th 2015 8:28pm by TirithRR
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#16 Apr 27 2015 at 6:58 PM Rating: Good
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I really don't think it was that terrible an idea. Just needs refining in the implementation. Making a bit of scratch off modding your favorite games would be cool. I mean look how successful they have been with the stupid trading cards. That **** prints money and is far more worthless.
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#17 Apr 27 2015 at 7:03 PM Rating: Good
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It was (still is) a pretty horrible idea. Turning mods into essentially Steam DLC, and would have led to eventually locking out external modding of any supported Steam games along with DRM and licensing methods to prove you were actually allowed to mod the game.

The idea of paying money to a mod developer was the least of the concerns. What would have to follow afterward would have ruined modding for Steam games.

Already there has been damage done to the modding community. The whole ordeal has put certain modders who had some very good and useful mods at odds with the game community. It will be a little while before things get back to normal.

Edit:
The trading card thing was quite different. It's something by the publisher/developer and Steam. Not a third party or user. And it doesn't exist outside of Steam already.

Edited, Apr 27th 2015 9:18pm by TirithRR
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#18 Apr 27 2015 at 7:22 PM Rating: Good
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It sounds like you actually followed this thing closer than me. I know that the Internets like to get mad and emotional but did not really follow this drama. I was more along the lines of, hey I put all this work into a mod and "Time is money, Friend." I know it's more complicated than that as the current scenario has shown. /shrug
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#19 Apr 27 2015 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
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There was only so much information available, as it only existed for four days over the weekend.

The issues only arose once you stopped and thought about the system, beyond just whether or not a person who creates a mod deserves to be compensated for the time and resources spent on development.
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#20 Apr 28 2015 at 4:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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The big concern for some was that this would choke off the modding scene by making people less likely to collaborate. Currently, a game like Skyrim comes out and the modders start hacking into it and figuring out how it ticks and sharing things like "Hey, this is how you can change NPC AI" or "Here's the weapons data". Likewise, a lot of modders give permission to use their mods as a basis for other mods with no more compensation than recognition ("This mod uses 'Happy Skies' by So-and-So-..."). The net result was a very fertile environment for creating new things since everyone was benefiting from the wealth of information and support.

But if mods are worth money then it's all different. If I discover how to edit NPC AI, why am I going to tell you people? Now you're the competition and the longer it is that I have the only NPC AI mod out there for $5 then the longer I'm getting $5 a pop. Likewise, why would I allow anyone to use my mod or assets unless I'm getting paid for it? If I made a mod for fall foliage in trees then I'm not going to let someone else use that as part of their Total World Makeover mod and watch them get paid for it, I'm going to guard my work because it potentially has value to me.

I won't bother arguing which of these scenarios is "better" but you can see how they are very different and would be a major change from how things are now. Or were, since I assume the effects of this will stay in the community as everyone waits for the next time Valve dips their toes in the pool. I can't believe that anyone thinks they'll give up a revenue stream this easily; they'll just wait for a less established game to start it with until it becomes the new normal.

Edited, Apr 28th 2015 5:52pm by Jophiel
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#21 Apr 28 2015 at 5:22 PM Rating: Good
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I'm also sure it's not the last we've heard of it. It's a Pandora's box thing. The box has been opened, there's no real putting a lid on it now. Just a matter of time.

There were some quotes from a Bethesda rep "poo poo"ing the concerns about mod DRM and not allowing third party mods to the Steam version of Skyrim as a result. Basically saying how Bethesda is anti-DRM, and how their DLC is DRM free (which is true). The counterpoint being that while Bethesda may not feel that way, some other developer would/could, easily. And then it's too late.

There is still a lot of anger in the community as a result of what Steam did. Certain members of the game community continue to call out greedy modders. Certain modders continue to accuse the game community of being entitled cheapskates, etc. It has put a noticeable dent in the community.


As for a real solution, if they really must...

Maybe Valve should, instead of just opening the flood gates, give the developers/publishers the same ability that Valve has with their community games. Instead of the modders choosing what to sell, Valve (or maybe part of the community, I'm not 100% sure how those games work) decides what gets integrated into the game.

Of course, that would require effort from the Developer/Publisher. And would ultimately create a responsibility on their end to make sure what they choose is usable and worthwhile. Which is a good thing for the community, but a negative for the Publisher. Since if they just let the modders do it, they get all the free money, and none of the responsibility and effort.


But, I'd still rather avoid the system all together. Too many potential negatives in my opinion, even if this one developer says they won't ever try to put DRM on mods.

Edit:
And of course, that possible solution would not be a solution to the issue Joph raises about it promoting competition and information hording amongst modders instead of them working together to solve things.

Edited, Apr 28th 2015 7:31pm by TirithRR
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#22 Jun 14 2015 at 8:32 PM Rating: Good
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I keep waiting for Bethesda to talk about paying/charging for mods...

Lots of talk about expansion of mod content, bethesda.net, doom snap thing (which looks good). The doom editor looks a lot like the Starcraft editor, which resulted in lots of fun game types.

But... I doubt they'll give up on monetizing it. Still don't like the idea though.

Edited, Jun 14th 2015 10:35pm by TirithRR
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