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#102 Apr 23 2009 at 12:46 AM Rating: Good
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Ran Naxx 25 (first raid on my Druid) last night and got a few nice drops:

T7.5 Shoulders

Rip Idol

and my favourite (stupid Loot Master was killing me waiting and waiting and waiting to give me it)......

The Undeath Carrier

Very productive run and I am a happy druid again :)


Edit: Oh dear I just put this thread onto its third page

Edited, Apr 23rd 2009 4:48am by KevMc
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#103 Apr 23 2009 at 3:20 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Edit: Oh dear I just put this thread onto its third page


Other classes have an achievement thread. We have a talk story thread. It is ok.

On a side note, just hit 350 JC.

Easy mode from here I think. As I may actually have recipes people want.
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#104 Apr 23 2009 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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I started the new sticky.

Slow day at work.

Will do more tomorrow at work I think, possibly today as well.
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#105 Apr 23 2009 at 6:33 PM Rating: Good
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Well have made some head way into the sticky.

The thing is big all ready and not even half way done.

Hopefully can crack out some more at work tomorrow and possible more on Saturday.
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#106 Apr 25 2009 at 2:46 AM Rating: Good
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395 JC LFW

WOOT

So happy.

Should be easier to level now as I can shill for work.

Have the def + SBV meta pattern need to get the rest. Then can really take off.

Gonna check see if get dailies. Then go bed.
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#107 Apr 27 2009 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Cat section is mostly done. Need haste and ArP info still. As I want the full effect of haste, I mean I know it isn't great but just some info would be nice. As for ArP I need to find the values of when to stack it based on which Idol you are using and whatnot.

Other wise cat section is mostly complete. Will start on the bear part next. That should go pretty fast.

Just leaving the Boomkin, Resto and PvP sections. Plus a smallish conclusion and assorted crap section plus a thank you to section.

Hoping to be done soonish. This thing is insanely long all ready. I am scared to see how big it gets.

Horsemouth.
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Cat durid is 4 fite
Bare durid is 4 tank
Moonkin 4 moon stuff
Tree durid is 4 heel!
#108 Apr 27 2009 at 3:45 PM Rating: Excellent
I SHOULD be able to get some time tomorrow to work on it.

I hope...
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#109 Apr 28 2009 at 4:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ok, I'm pretty sure my eyeballs are bleeding and my brain is hemorrhaging, but Armor Penetration has to be the most difficult stat to determine it's stat ranking.

Armor Penetration was buffed with the latest patch, which further complicates matters.

Armor Penetration gets stronger the more you stack whereas agility has to deal with diminishing returns for it's benefit to crit.

Here's were sh*t gets crazy.

Armor Penetration changeover where it rates higher than agility also is based on your overall stats, i.e. if you have high ArP, but low AP and Crit, then your ArP needed to make it more powerful than agility will be higher than someone who has higher AP and Crit.

Therefore the amount of ArP you need to stack to have it be valued higher than Agility is directly related to the overall AP and Crit you have meaning the better/closer you are to BiS, the more likely that ArP will surpass Agility as your main focus for gemming/gearing.

Basically from what I can tell, the lower your gear level is the less you will value ArP.

The higher your gear level gets, the lower the amount of ArP you will need for it to be of more value than Agility.

The hardest part will be factoring in the loss of AP/Crit from gemming for ArP in place of Agility and making sure that your gear has high enough AP/Crit for the changeover to have a positive affect on your dps vs a negative.

Also, at higher gear levels, with high amounts of ArP, the Shred idol overtakes the Rip idol from a pure DPS standpoint due to the high levels of AP/Crit and the amount of armor reduction possible on boss mobs.

Ok....so that's that. Hopefully that makes sense and we can somehow turn that into a coherent message to our droods.

(Source #1)

(Source #2)

EDIT: Keep in mind that there is still a lot of theorycraft involved so we will be modifying this as more info comes out obviously.

EDIT x2: OMG confusion will reign! Armor Penetration can put mobs below 0 armor and continue to increase damage past ability's base damage! O.o

Edited, Apr 28th 2009 9:58am by Galenmoon
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Galenmoon - 80 Feral Drood
Gavinitis - 80 Ele Shammy
Weelilboom - 73 Frost Mage
Revengery - 64 A$$ Rogue

just to name a few...
#110 Apr 28 2009 at 6:13 AM Rating: Good
Buh...

Wasn't the entire point of ArP rating working in percentage values to prevent that very thing from happening? >_>
#111 Apr 28 2009 at 6:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ok, haste rating.

25.21 Haste Rating provides 1% melee haste for Druids. (as of patch 3.1)

Our GCD is already 1 sec so it cannot lower it any further through haste

It does continue to lower our white attack speed below 1 second.

It does increase our OoC procs which is based off of a Proc per attack ratio rather than a Proc per minute ratio.

Haste stacks multiplicatively. This means that it is beneficial to stack multiple haste effects. (Such as heroism/bloodlust)

Haste rating stacks additively with itself (two sources of 100 haste rating give 200 haste rating stacked together) and then is converted into a percentage that stacks multiplicatively with other sources of haste.

Haste will never be a stat to stack as it has lower benefits agility. It will never be a stat to be avoided, but stacking it to the loss of other stats (Agility, strength, attack power, crit) will never be the way to go.

EDIT: I'm just putting this here so you can edit it Horse. I don't have time to do all the editing/formatting so I'll just keep throwing info here for you to move over as you get time. (just grabbing/writing bits as I get chunks of time at work)

Edited, Apr 28th 2009 10:25am by Galenmoon
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Galenmoon - 80 Feral Drood
Gavinitis - 80 Ele Shammy
Weelilboom - 73 Frost Mage
Revengery - 64 A$$ Rogue

just to name a few...
#112 Apr 29 2009 at 1:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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uh, about the "below 0 from ArP" thing galen:

GC stated that there is a cap on how much armor you'll lose from ArP, specifically stated as such in this thread:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=16473618356&pageNo=4&sid=1#77

Quote:
Okay, here is a fairly technical explanation we put together for how armor pen works.

We didn’t want Armor Penetration Rating to be too powerful against low armor targets, like it had been in BC. We also didn’t want Armor Penetration Rating to be too powerful against high armor targets.

So, we decided on a system where there is a cap on how much armor the Armor Penetration Rating can be applied to. So, the first X armor on the target is reduced by the percentage listed in the Armor Penetration Rating tooltip, and all armor past that X is unaffected. Another way of understanding that is we multiply the percentage in the tooltip times the minimum of the two values: the cap, and the amount of armor on the target after all other modifiers.

Computing the cap is a little tricky unless you are already familiar with how World of Warcraft armor works. There is an armor constant we’ll call C. C is derived as follows (in some pseudocode):

If (level<60)
C=400+85*targetlevel
Else
C=400+85*targetlevel+4.5*85*(targetlevel-59);

For a level 80 target, C=15232.5. For a level 83, C=16635.

The cap for Armor Penetration then is: (armor + C)/3.

A level 80 warrior creature has 9729 armor. C=15232.5. So, the cap is (9729+15232.5)/3=8320.5. Let’s say a player has 30% armor penetration from armor penetration rating and no other modifiers that complicate the calculation (talents, Battle Stance, Sunder Armor, etc.). The game chooses the minimum of 8320.5 and 9729, so 8320.5. That is multiplied by 30% = 2496.15, and so that much armor is ignored. The effective armor on the target is 7232.85 (9729-2496.15). From a player point of view, the armor penetration rating didn’t ignore the full 30%, but instead ignored 25.66%. (85.5% as effective as expected).

These equations should help you be able to test and verify that Armor Penetration Rating is working correctly and as we designed. The tooltip is not actually inaccurate, as it states: “Enemy armor reduced by up to 30.00%.” That "up to" is key.

Please be sure to test without any other effects which modify the armor calculation (Battle Stance, Sunder Armor, Mace Specialization, etc.) as they may involve other systems that add additional complexity to the calculation.


in short, no amount of ArP can ever make a target "naked" in terms of how much armor they have. at least for a druid anyway.

Edited, Apr 29th 2009 3:17am by Quor
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i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#113 Apr 29 2009 at 2:48 AM Rating: Good
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I'm drunk. That is all.
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#114 Apr 29 2009 at 4:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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I had seen that post Quor, the reason I posted the other one with proof was because it was dated 6 days after GC had made the post saying that it was impossible to drop armor below 0 or to have more than 100% armor penetration, etc...

Now obviously you have to take the person's word for it on EJ, but they don't tend to mess around, which is why I figured it was worth posting up.

Whether this is something that is only a PvE thing and GC thinks it's fixed for PvP (which it's usually a bigger deal on) and so it theoretically is possible.

Either way, ArP is still by far the hardest stat IMO to put a stat weight to for druids.

EDIT: Also, I know that it is pretty much impossible for druids to hit the "0 armor target" range because we don't get a buff such as battle stance, but between FFF and Sunder Armor/Shattering throw debuffs we can still have the ability to have a target with almost no armor. Warriors are really the only class that (in the context of the EJ post) could hit the 0 or less armor goal.

Edited, Apr 29th 2009 8:13am by Galenmoon
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Galenmoon - 80 Feral Drood
Gavinitis - 80 Ele Shammy
Weelilboom - 73 Frost Mage
Revengery - 64 A$$ Rogue

just to name a few...
#115 Apr 30 2009 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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Starting the bear parts now.

Then it is research for lasers and trees.

http://wow.allakhazam.com/wiki/druid_sticky_test_page

If you know stuff and like help put info there.
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Cat durid is 4 fite
Bare durid is 4 tank
Moonkin 4 moon stuff
Tree durid is 4 heel!
#118 May 01 2009 at 12:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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i see what youre saying now galen. echoing what ive heard elsewhere i cant imagine this is something theyll leave as is; it makes ArP too much of a coveted stat. at the very least i'd think they'd remove the possibility for making things have negative armor.

but...until then.....weeee!
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Quote:
The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#119 May 01 2009 at 1:00 AM Rating: Good
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Judging from much of what I have heard else where the ArP changes only affect warrior and druid to a large degree.

Hunters gain little benefit.

Ret is a large portion of magic damage.

Rouge is poison and bleed based to a degree. Well I don't get rogue, I could see a combat ArP spec coming soonish. But I am not really a good source of rogue info.

Shammy has a big melee damage component but to much is based on shocks and lash I think.

DK may have an ArP spec but again not my forte.

So if the changes really only affect 3 specs from 2 classes the changes may stay.

*crosses fingers*

I now have to make a new cat set though...
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idiggory wrote:
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#120 May 01 2009 at 6:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dropped skinning for Jewelcrafting yesterday after I grinded some skill points of herbalism and mining on my DK.

I got him from 0 to 400/450 by this morning. Spent ~700g so far, easy sailing now. Just have to make sure I keep up with the JC daily. Funny thing is I still don't even have enough money to train all the new cuts/items because I'm BROKE! :P
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Galenmoon - 80 Feral Drood
Gavinitis - 80 Ele Shammy
Weelilboom - 73 Frost Mage
Revengery - 64 A$$ Rogue

just to name a few...
#121 May 01 2009 at 6:10 AM Rating: Excellent
Just mine and mine and mine. Believe me you'll get more than enough mats and you'll make a **** load of money doing it.

All the eternal earth you get take that and all the green quality gems and make those rings and amulets. Then take those and DE them all and look at all the enchanting mats you've got!
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#122 May 01 2009 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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blood dks with lots of ArP might be a scary thing to see. blood already has the best scaling in terms of multipliers of the three trees; it just gets boned cause the majority of its damage is all physical.

ive heard ArP changes makes TG fury almost worthwhile again. ironic that.
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Quote:
The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#123 May 01 2009 at 1:53 PM Rating: Good
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Ya, I think the full ramifications of the ArP changes are just starting to be felt.

The math for Arms and Cat is mostly there but blood, rogue, fury and shammy are all kind of still playing with it to my knowledge. I could see a wonky haste/ArP rogue mace spec being good for PvP.
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idiggory wrote:
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#124 May 03 2009 at 4:06 AM Rating: Good
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Added the stuff Arex wrote about in the laserchicken section.

I go bed now.
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Cat durid is 4 fite
Bare durid is 4 tank
Moonkin 4 moon stuff
Tree durid is 4 heel!
#125 May 03 2009 at 4:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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hey cool im not the only one up past 5am.
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Quote:
The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#126 May 04 2009 at 2:49 AM Rating: Excellent
Oh man what a weekend, especially after being on a long break...

- Finished noblegarden
- Finished childrens week, got Superior achievement from UP ymiron quest reward in the process
- Ran some heroics, discovered I had 25 badges, got Pendant of the Outcast Hero for kitty build
- STAFF OF TRICKERY WOOT. Still need to mongoose it.
- Tried to tank Emalon. Thought I was doing pretty well but we kept wiping due to random instagibs (novas maybe? still not sure exactly what went wrong) and then people had to leave/wg timer was up. :(
- Ran more heroics, got Shroud of Darkness...yay meta head finally
- Completed Higher Learning, 6 books in 1 day O.o
- Got to tank OS 10 pug for realz. My first real go at a serious raid MT. Was 0d so nothing particularly complicated, but hey I kept a good aggro lead (new gear certainly helped I'm sure) and nobody really died...I was noobing it up with the void zones and twilight torment though, lol :x Finally got it down by the 3rd drake, and sarth was np at all to move with the lava walls and stuff.

I'm pumped. Need to find out when guildies do naxx and try to get in on some of that hotness.
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