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#52 Jan 13 2014 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good

idiggory

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20,024 posts

someproteinguy wrote:

idiggory, King of Bards wrote:

someproteinguy wrote:

So pretty much Skyrim?

Except with actual abilities, not just basic/strong attacks, and more of the classic skills like crafting that would take on a new life with an economy. And I'm not looking for an action RPG.

I could do that, well maybe except the "no action RPG" part. I'm feeling like a convert to the style and finished with tab-targeting. I'll still boot up SWTOR or something from time to time, but not being able to hit the guy in front of me with my sword because I'm looking at his friend 100 yards away is hokey.

I don't necessarily have anything against it being an action RPG, but I'm not really looking for Skyrim, either. Skyrim's combat was easily one of its weakest points.

FPS-style controls are great for FPS games, but they really start to strain when you need melee combat incorporated. ESO is using this system where it's using traditional input methods (sans binding attack to a mouse click), but that the mob closest to your cursor is what you target. And I loathe it.

But, at the same time, the problem there is that the game is pretending its an action RPG when it's actually just using classical targeting, slightly altered.

Maybe an actual action RPG setup would work well... if you were playing with a controller.

But then we have the issue of magic and ranged aiming. It could be a massive balance headache if they need fps-esque aiming, but the warrior with the massive greatsword with cleave trained up can just facemash his way through anything, because he's guaranteed hits.

I don't know what the answer there is.

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#53 Jan 13 2014 at 12:00 PM Rating: Excellent

someproteinguy

Meat Popsicle

13,666 posts

idiggory, King of Bards wrote:

I don't necessarily have anything against it being an action RPG, but I'm not really looking for Skyrim, either. Skyrim's combat was easily one of its weakest points.

Don't disagree. My biggest challenge in leveling a character there is usually boredom with the combat after 20-30 levels. You can only fill so many rooms with fireballs.

idiggory, King of Bards wrote:

But then we have the issue of magic and ranged aiming. It could be a massive balance headache if they need fps-esque aiming, but the warrior with the massive greatsword with cleave trained up can just facemash his way through anything, because he's guaranteed hits.

I don't know what the answer there is.

Big *** Monsters.

Really, that was the thing about TERA, you never really worried about hitting your target because that target was huge. People are already used to raid bosses that take up half a room so there's no real expectation gap there. Also things like AoE spells, mouse-over lock-on abilities, frontal cones, abilities that affect whatever has a DoT ticking, and the like cut down on "aiming". Also the stereotypical ranged support classes of course, but I don't think that was what you were thinking.

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#54 Jan 13 2014 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good

Mazra

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Ghost in the Machine

36,443 posts

someproteinguy wrote:

I could do that, well maybe except the "no action RPG" part. I'm feeling like a convert to the style and finished with tab-targeting. I'll still boot up SWTOR or something from time to time, but not being able to hit the guy in front of me with my sword because I'm looking at his friend 100 yards away is hokey.

And missing the guy in front of you because the action RPG has "realistic animations" is also sh*t.

I prefer locking on to something and always hitting that target, rather than the jousting style gameplay of spam-clicking MB1 and MB2 while you're back and forth towards each other.

Edited, Jan 13th 2014 7:06pm by Mazra

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#55 Jan 13 2014 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good

idiggory

Muggle@#%^er

20,024 posts

I think we've seen enough action rpg systems that it's reasonable to expect a game to establish a new one that doesn't suck and doesn't need the boss to take up my entire screen. I hate that, when I can't see what I'm fighting. There are times when it's okay, like when I'm taking out a dragon's leg or something. But you better split that up with phases where I'm attacking its head, or jumping on its back and zoomed out while attacking, or something.

I do think we've seen enough action RPG systems that it's reasonable to expect one that works, if a developer is going to build a new game around it.

And part of me wonders if the answer is to just go ahead and build the control system around a controller, sell the game bundled with/without a controller peripheral, and let people play it on either the console or PC (which is increasingly common). Then largely just leave m+k support as addon-based, and focus on designing around controller-based systems?

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IDrownFish wrote:

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#56 Jan 13 2014 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good

__DEL__1680481127345

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Sage

21,262 posts

idiggory, King of Bards wrote:

Catwho wrote:

Quote:

Why the hell were we even out in the middle of nowhere?

Waking Sands used to be in Ul'Dah. After the Calamity, they went into hiding in Vesper Bay (e.g. the middle of nowhere.) Tataru even tells you that when you first join.

I just don't think that we're going to see many grindy style games any more. TERA was the last one that was made with a somewhat heavy grind, and it just wasn't as successful as its less grindy counterparts. Even FFXI has been modified to not be grindy any more.

If EQN can pull it off, I'll tip my hat off to them.

Also: For XIV ARR, I set my cutscene language to Japanese. The voices and acting are a hell of a lot better in that language.

Yeah, but WHY are they in hiding. And why not hide in the city, where it's easy to lose someone in alleys, and not in some random coastal town where anyone could track a known agent back fairly easily, where it's not at all defensible (hey there massive sea), and where you don't even have an aetheryte crystal for quick access to reinforcements?

Just stupid.

2.1 mission start addresses this. 1. Their headquarters in Ul'Dah blew up. Ul'Dah needed that land for the hall of flames. (In 1.0, that little area shared a joint menu-based entrance for the market wards, the hall of flames, and Waking Sands, which was in the basement. They got evicted after that side of Ul'Dah was cratered.) 2. The Lambs of Dalamud blamed the Scions for the failure of their savior to appear. That cult is crrrrrazy, as you see in TamTara Deepcroft. Also, the empire wanted Minfilia for the Echo. They didn't know where the Waking Sands had moved until an internal spy for the Ascions ratted them out. 3. In the 2.1 missions, at least as far as I've gotten, they blame Ul'Dah for their lack of aetheryte. See, they won't accept bribes from the Syndicate, so the Syndicate is punishing them by sticking them out in the middle of nowhere and not giving them an aetheryte.

Right now they're debating whether they should move to Mor Dhorna - aetheryte, neutral territory, high level players. I think eventually they will.

Edited, Jan 13th 2014 5:04pm by Catwho

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