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I Totally Support the Occupy Movement...Follow

#377 Nov 11 2011 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#378 Nov 11 2011 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
Joph,

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When they're not busy calling them lying whores, anyway


But at least we say it with a smile on our face.



So you ENJOY insulting others? Got it.
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#379 Nov 11 2011 at 11:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
varusword75 wrote:
Joph,

Quote:
When they're not busy calling them lying whores, anyway


But at least we say it with a smile on our face.



So you ENJOY insulting others? Got it.


I assumed as much.
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#380varusword75, Posted: Nov 11 2011 at 11:20 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) proteinguy,
#381 Nov 11 2011 at 11:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gumbo Galahad wrote:
I've never been insulted
Comprehension is too hard for you.
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#382 Nov 11 2011 at 11:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
And in Oakland havn't there been shootings?

Yeah, the police shot a Marine veteran in the head with a canister.

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It's a good day.

Scumbag.
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#383 Nov 11 2011 at 12:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
lagaga,

Unlike yankees we can be civil to people who don't think like we do.


Bless your heart...
#384varusword75, Posted: Nov 11 2011 at 12:55 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Debo,
#385 Nov 11 2011 at 1:25 PM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
Debo,

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Scumbag.


Those filthy little occupiers are aren't they.

We all know how much you despise the military.
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#386 Nov 11 2011 at 4:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
proteinguy,

I've never been insulted, I wouldn't know. lol


I guess this could be true if your standards are low enough to take insults as compliments.
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#387 Nov 11 2011 at 4:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
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As a result, I see not giving someone benefits differently than taking money from someone and failing to pay them back

Really? You didn't understand that those benefits aren't some gift or token of heart-felt gratitude but rather part of their salary agreement and wages? And that you're very much so taking from them and not paying them back when you accept their work and fail to uphold your end of the salary agreement?


If that were true, you'd have a point. But this is not a case of taking money out of their salary and then owing them their money back. Social Security and Medicare cost more than the amount the recipients pay into it (both individually on average *and* collectively). You aren't getting "your money back", or even the amount that is owed to you. The benefits come from the money workers are paying into those systems today, not from the money the recipients paid into it. That money went to pay for the benefits for people who were retired when they were working. While it doesn't have all the elements of a ponzi scheme, it has many of them (as do most pension plans as well btw).

The idea that you're paying into those programs to provide for your own future is really false. What we're really doing is forcing the people working today to pay for the retirement needs of those retired today. That's it. Covering that over with a layer of BS frosting doesn't change the reality of how those programs work. And while we can certainly say that's a good thing to do. And those retired today can certainly argue that they gave up some of their earnings to pay for the retired back then and deserve to have the workers of today do the same for them, it's *not* the same as a legally defined loan (which is what you're doing when you buy t-bills).

If I lend you money, and we write up a loan document where you promise to pay me back the money with X interest, you are legally bound to pay me back. You actually owe me the money I gave you. But these programs somehow assume that because I give money to someone when they needed it, you are now required to give money to me when I need it. And even more bizarrely that my need is more important than your ability to pay.

It's not the same as a direct "you borrowed from me, and owe me my money back" relationship.

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Well, if that's the difference between conservatives and liberals, thank God I'm liberal.


Someone who disguises social spending programs as some sort of payment for a debt? Someone who is confused about a lot of things? Yes, I'm sure confused people thank god for their blissful confusion all the time. Doesn't mean that the rest of us should put much weight in their ideas though.
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#388 Nov 11 2011 at 6:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
If that were true, you'd have a point.

It is true, so thanks! Smiley: smile

$1.3 trillion of that debt that "doesn't count" is from retirement trust funds. Those are benefits directly owed to people who were promised those benefits when they put forth their service. I suppose conservatives don't mind stealing from those people -- look at how much they spit at union workers for wanting their pensions when they retire -- but I'm of the crazy notion that we should actually be paying back those funds (or better yet, not raiding them in the first place).

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Someone who is confused about a lot of things?

I'm sorry to hear you weren't confused earlier when you wrote your misleading statements about the debt. It just means you're a straight liar.

Edit: I also think it's wrong to raid the SS and Medicare trust funds, spend the money on whatever and then tell the American people "Oh, sorry! No money left for you so we have to change the rules and don't you dare complain because those were just future benefits we spent and you're not owed anything!" But since I'm talking to a guy who thinks it's okay to steal wages from retirees, I'm not even going to try and tackle that one.

Edited, Nov 11th 2011 6:28pm by Jophiel
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#389 Nov 11 2011 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
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But since I'm talking to a guy who thinks it's okay to steal wages from retirees, I'm not even going to try and tackle that one.


I gave up when he said that inter government debt is not real debt. You have a lot more patience then I do.
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#390 Nov 11 2011 at 6:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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If it actually worked like he said (and largely got wrong), he;d have more of a point. Except he made it sound as though the government was taking from overfunded programs and wiping out the IOU's.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Social Security, Medicare and retirement benefits are overfunded. Well, except Gbaji, I guess.

Edited, Nov 11th 2011 6:52pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#391 Nov 11 2011 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
If it actually worked like he said (and largely got wrong), he;d have more of a point. Except he made it sound as though the government was taking from overfunded programs and wiping out the IOU's.


Sigh. Which is *exactly* what intergovernmental debt is.

Quote:
I don't think anyone is arguing that Social Security, Medicare and retirement benefits are overfunded. Well, except Gbaji, I guess.


Ah... The patented "I don't think anyone..." argument, usually when the person in question doesn't actually know what the **** they're talking about. Why not stop and do some research first. You'll discover that the reason those funds were able to be "raided" was because for most of the last decade or so they have been running a surplus.

I'm not commenting on the wisdom of having taken money from those funds via intergovernmental transfer given that we know they wont continue to run surpluses in years to come, however, it's absolutely true that the reason that money could be transfered was because those programs had surpluses in the years in question. Did someone hit you over the head with the stupid stick or something?
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#392 Nov 11 2011 at 9:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can't wait to see the gyrations it is going to require to explain how the 74 times he posted an "I don't think anyone ..." argument are all exceptions.
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#393 Nov 11 2011 at 10:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I can't wait to see the gyrations it is going to require to explain how the 74 times he posted an "I don't think anyone ..." argument are all exceptions.


IOKIYAG.
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#394 Nov 11 2011 at 10:32 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I can't wait to see the gyrations it is going to require to explain how the 74 times he posted an "I don't think anyone ..." argument are all exceptions.


The issue isn't about just using the phrase (but good for you for being consistent and zeroing in on the exact wrong thing). It's about using that phrase as the sole support for your argument.

Oh. It's Doubly absurd when in this case Joph is simply wrong. He knows it too. It's only possible to do an intergovernmental transfer from a program when that program's yearly budget exceeds its yearly expenses. By definition, it has to run a surplus for it to have money to be raided, yet he attempted to hand wave it away with a pretty incredibly lame appeal to (popular) ignorance. Yeah, I made up that fallacy, but it seems appropriate.

Edited, Nov 11th 2011 8:35pm by gbaji
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#395 Nov 11 2011 at 11:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
it has to run a surplus for it to have money to be raided


Only if you don't understand how investments, pensions, social service plans etc. work. The whole point of something like Employment Insurance (a form of social security we have here) is that the fund accumulates money so that when people need it, it is there.

Taking money that was specifically put away for contingencies isn't spending profit, it is stealing from the people who worked hard and paid into the social security net who are basically being told to F off now.
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#396 Nov 12 2011 at 12:12 AM Rating: Good
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Sigh. Which is *exactly* what intergovernmental debt is.


Smiley: lol Smiley: lolSmiley: lol It is still a debt you idiot. Robbing from peter to pay paul doesn't eliminate debt it consolidates it, and currently the US national debt is over 100% of the US GDP.

I anticipate incoming talking points that skirt the debt issue to further your anti tax increase position. It is laughable at best, to say the least.

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#397 Nov 12 2011 at 12:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Ah... The patented "I don't think anyone..." argument, usually when the person in question doesn't actually know what the **** they're talking about.

Irony.

Quote:
You'll discover that the reason those funds were able to be "raided" was because for most of the last decade or so they have been running a surplus.

Not really a "surplus" since it was known that money would be required to pay future obligations. But I'll let you prove you already knew this and try to weasel out...

Quote:
I'm not commenting on the wisdom of having taken money from those funds via intergovernmental transfer given that we know they wont continue to run surpluses in years to come

I wouldn't either if I were you. I'd hate for you to look stupider than you already do. Smiley: laugh
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#398 Nov 12 2011 at 4:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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"It just is," huh. Kind of expected that. Can't say I'm not disappointed though. I was kind of hoping it'd have been more entertaining. Oh well.

Anyway, real reason for this post: I just spent the day in Times Square taking part of the Occupy Mario Land demonstrations. Nintendo took over Military Island with pipes and end flags and had people dressed up as Mario and such. Got myself a couple of pairs of tanooki ears. It was a lot of fun.

Edited, Nov 12th 2011 5:43pm by lolgaxe
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#399 Nov 12 2011 at 4:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
"It just is," huh. Kind of expected that. Can't say I'm not disappointed though. I was kind of hoping it'd have been more entertaining. Oh well.

Anyway, real reason for this post: I just spent the day in Times Square taking part of the Occupy Mario Land demonstrations. Nintendo took over Military Island with pipes and end flags and had people dressed up as Mario and such. Got myself a couple of pairs of tanooki ears. It was a lot of fun.

Edited, Nov 12th 2011 5:43pm by lolgaxe


WHY IS EVERYTHING FUN THE WEEKEND I'M NOT ABLE TO DO ANY OF IT?

Seriously. I bought Skyrim at midnight on Thursday. I've played 45 minutes of it. I got invited to the Old Republic stress test this weekend. And my ROOMMATE played because I couldn't (though, to be fair, I can play tomorrow). Now I hear there were awesome occupy shenanigans? >:( I was free ALL last weekend.

Random venting. Carry on.
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IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
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#400 Nov 12 2011 at 6:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
"It just is," huh. Kind of expected that. Can't say I'm not disappointed though. I was kind of hoping it'd have been more entertaining. Oh well.

Anyway, real reason for this post: I just spent the day in Times Square taking part of the Occupy Mario Land demonstrations. Nintendo took over Military Island with pipes and end flags and had people dressed up as Mario and such. Got myself a couple of pairs of tanooki ears. It was a lot of fun.

FUCKBAG

I was there this morning. We stood in line for over an hour and a half, then the "line" collapsed into a mob which we were stuck at the back of. My son was throwing a fit at that point so we said fuck this and went to chase pigeons across Bryant Park.

You owe my wife a Tanooki tail!
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#401 Nov 14 2011 at 8:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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She'll have to fight my wife for it. I'm pretty sure she killed a seven year old to get her tanooki tail.
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