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#577 Nov 22 2011 at 8:36 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
And in related news, it turns out that military-grade pepper spray is a food product.

I've accidentally rubbed fresh habanero juice in my eyes...I was incapacitated for a whole two minutes!
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#578 Nov 23 2011 at 7:35 AM Rating: Excellent
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Duke Lubriderm wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
Quote:

However, if the CEO got a bonus because he fired workers and reduced expenses, that is the path I have an issue with. This is the rich taking from the poor. Because he saved 200k/year by slashing the payroll, do you think it's right for him to get a 100k bonus? The only reason he gets paid in this case is because he screwed over the little guy.


If he saved 200k/yr with no penalties to the company, then they didn't need those workers. Making the company more efficient is worth a bonus, perhaps not to that relative level.
What generally happens in this case is that the workers who don't get laid off have more work to do and don't any more money for doing it. The companies subtly remind people that 'they are lucky to have a job in this economy' and manage to get away with it.
Or, the employees actually have to do a full days work while getting paid a full days wage. Sometimes, it actually is about efficiency and productivity.
If you increase somebody's work load, you should at least attempt to share in the cost savings, even if not at 100% equity versus what was saved, acknowledging that their workload has increased would be appropriate. If nothing else, it's common decency.
#579 Nov 23 2011 at 7:44 AM Rating: Excellent
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
You could always spend more for products and not demand cheaper products. Most companies don't move overseas just to increase profits. They do so once they've capped out on other ways to do so, or to maintain. Let them raise prices to whatever they want and you'll see less jobs moving overseas.

Nobody wants that though, so instead we'll all complain about a dog being a dog.
Prices are what they are. They're value based. If a product reaches a certain price level at which you won't buy it, it's because it's not worth it to you to have it at that price.

That's kind of the basis of economics.
Which leads us into getting upset at a dog for being a dog.
I'd be upset if my dog bit people for just because it made her happy; I'm totally cool with her when finds more creative ways to entertain herself, like playing with a tennis ball; if she bit a bugler or someone attacking me, I'd be fin with that too.

Sometimes cutting jobs is necessary, and the right thing to do, other times, it's just the lazy way for a CEO or owner to save money.
#580 Nov 23 2011 at 8:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
And in related news, it turns out that military-grade pepper spray is a food product.
Give it a few days and congress will classify it as a vegetable.
#581 Nov 23 2011 at 10:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
If you increase somebody's work load, you should at least attempt to share in the cost savings, even if not at 100% equity versus what was saved, acknowledging that their workload has increased would be appropriate. If nothing else, it's common decency.
Sometimes, you're overstaffed for what you really need and people are just inefficient. Sometimes, those cuts simply take you to the appropriate workforce in the first place. That's not an increase in workload, it's actually making them work the workload they were supposed to work in the first place.
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#582 Nov 23 2011 at 11:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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#583 Nov 23 2011 at 11:20 AM Rating: Default
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Lubriderm wrote:
If you increase somebody's work load, you should at least attempt to share in the cost savings, even if not at 100% equity versus what was saved, acknowledging that their workload has increased would be appropriate. If nothing else, it's common decency.

You fire a guy who was earning $30000 a year. It results in a marginal workload increase for ten people, so you increase their salary by $1000 a year. Suddenly you still aren't making ends meet. Do you now fire a second person to make up for the shortfall you introduced in the name of "decency"?

As Ugly said above (and I know you probably haven't had a chance to read yet), sometimes it just isn't practical to keep a business running that way. Not every business is running with huge profit margins.
#584 Nov 23 2011 at 11:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Majivo wrote:
Not every business is running with huge profit margins.

Maybe they should leave business running to the professionals. Losers.
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#585 Nov 23 2011 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
And in related news, it turns out that military-grade pepper spray is a food product.
Give it a few days and congress will classify it as a vegetable.

It can replace french fries in school lunches.
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#586 Nov 23 2011 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hopefully with Bacon
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#587 Nov 23 2011 at 11:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bacon Flavored Pepper Spray: Drive 'em off but keep 'em coming back for more!
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#588 Nov 23 2011 at 11:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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pepper bacon sounds delicious. Spray form is an obvious convenience.
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#589 Nov 23 2011 at 12:13 PM Rating: Excellent
Majivo wrote:
Lubriderm wrote:
If you increase somebody's work load, you should at least attempt to share in the cost savings, even if not at 100% equity versus what was saved, acknowledging that their workload has increased would be appropriate. If nothing else, it's common decency.

You fire a guy who was earning $30000 a year. It results in a marginal workload increase for ten people, so you increase their salary by $1000 a year. Suddenly you still aren't making ends meet. Do you now fire a second person to make up for the shortfall you introduced in the name of "decency"?

As Ugly said above (and I know you probably haven't had a chance to read yet), sometimes it just isn't practical to keep a business running that way. Not every business is running with huge profit margins.


That doesn't add up. Giving 10 people an extra 1K for having to run a few more reports apiece is draining your $30K cost savings?

Sometimes it isn't a matter of total workload, its a matter of needing people to handle special things. You don't fire your lone IT guy and now ask your head art guy who knows Macs inside and out to take over the Windows network. Inversely, you don't fire an art guy and then ask your IT person to take over some of the graphic design duties since they're all done on computers anyway.

Despite what some businesses believe, human beings are not always interchangeable cogs. You should have as many people with specializations as needed to get your work done efficiently, and as many with overlapping abilities to be able to fill in for others in a pinch. I know if I quit my job tomorrow my office would continue to function, but they'd suddenly be weeks or months behind because they'd have to train someone else to do everything I do. Yet if I'm off for one day or even a week, someone could handle my everyday tasks or the office could just not have them done and it wouldn't matter in the long run.
#590 Nov 23 2011 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Sometimes, you're overstaffed for what you really need and people are just inefficient.


whatever, my gf does the jobs 3 people did a year ago by her self, and didn't see a wage increase. That is such a bogus look at workloads it isn't funny.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2011 1:15pm by rdmcandie
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#591 Nov 23 2011 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
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No. You cut someone to save $30k, but only ended up saving $20k as a result. Now, if that $20k isn't enough of a savings to keep from losing money, you've got to cut another person.
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#592 Nov 23 2011 at 12:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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rdmcandie wrote:
Quote:
Sometimes, you're overstaffed for what you really need and people are just inefficient.


whatever, my gf does the jobs 3 people did a year ago by her self, and didn't see a wage increase. That is such a bogus look at workloads it isn't funny.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2011 1:15pm by rdmcandie
****. I didn't say always. I said sometimes. You even quoted it. Point being, don't jump to assumptions unless you have enough info to actually do so. Or be a gbaji, if you want.
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#593 Nov 23 2011 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
Quote:
Sometimes, you're overstaffed for what you really need and people are just inefficient.


whatever, my gf does the jobs 3 people did a year ago by her self, and didn't see a wage increase. That is such a bogus look at workloads it isn't funny.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2011 1:15pm by rdmcandie

Sounds like your girlfriend should market herself to other prospective employers for an increased salary.

Or stop complaining and get back to work.
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#594 Nov 23 2011 at 12:29 PM Rating: Excellent
Uglysasquatch wrote:
No. You cut someone to save $30k, but only ended up saving $20k as a result. Now, if that $20k isn't enough of a savings to keep from losing money, you've got to cut another person.


At that point it seems like your business has bigger infrastructure problems all around. Not necessarily that people aren't doing their own work efficiently, but you're getting work done that isn't actually making you money.

We actually had to let go one of our clients because they were such a huge cost and time sink. (We called it a "divorce.") There reached a point where they kept refusing to pay their bills for work already done, and refused to take our advice for critically needed infrastructure upgrades that were generating all the problems in the first place. We were losing money by having their business. So we just wrote them a firm but polite letter stating that we were no longer going to be their IT support on the first of the following month, and suggested they look into hiring the company that handled their main enterprise application.
#595 Nov 23 2011 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
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catwho wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
No. You cut someone to save $30k, but only ended up saving $20k as a result. Now, if that $20k isn't enough of a savings to keep from losing money, you've got to cut another person.


At that point it seems like your business has bigger infrastructure problems all around. Not necessarily that people aren't doing their own work efficiently, but you're getting work done that isn't actually making you money.

Smiley: dubious The fact that your business is losing money points to "infrastructure problems" and nothing else to you? It couldn't possibly be due to employee redundancies, or a recession, or any number of factors that you can't just handwave around and say "look, we reorganized everything, we're in the black again!"?

If my company is losing $25000 a year, and I can identify an employee who I can eliminate without loss of net income to return the company to a net profit, then yes, that's the proper course of action (in the absence of alternatives). To say that in this situation, it's due to "infrastructure problems", is willful blindness.
#596 Nov 23 2011 at 12:37 PM Rating: Excellent
"Infrastructure problems" also includes redundant employees Smiley: glare
#597 Nov 23 2011 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Demea wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
Quote:
Sometimes, you're overstaffed for what you really need and people are just inefficient.


whatever, my gf does the jobs 3 people did a year ago by her self, and didn't see a wage increase. That is such a bogus look at workloads it isn't funny.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2011 1:15pm by rdmcandie

Sounds like your girlfriend should market herself to other prospective employers for an increased salary.

Or stop complaining and get back to work.


I think you are missing the point of the discussion.
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#598 Nov 23 2011 at 12:52 PM Rating: Decent
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catwho wrote:
"Infrastructure problems" also includes redundant employees Smiley: glare

"All around" includes more Smiley: tongue
#599 Nov 23 2011 at 12:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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rdmcandie wrote:
Demea wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
Quote:
Sometimes, you're overstaffed for what you really need and people are just inefficient.


whatever, my gf does the jobs 3 people did a year ago by her self, and didn't see a wage increase. That is such a bogus look at workloads it isn't funny.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2011 1:15pm by rdmcandie

Sounds like your girlfriend should market herself to other prospective employers for an increased salary.

Or stop complaining and get back to work.


I think you are missing the point of the discussion.

I think you lack the mental capacity to understand the relevance of my comments to the discussion.

Agree to disagree, I suppose.
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#600 Nov 23 2011 at 12:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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rdmcandie wrote:
Demea wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
Quote:
Sometimes, you're overstaffed for what you really need and people are just inefficient.


whatever, my gf does the jobs 3 people did a year ago by her self, and didn't see a wage increase. That is such a bogus look at workloads it isn't funny.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2011 1:15pm by rdmcandie

Sounds like your girlfriend should market herself to other prospective employers for an increased salary.

Or stop complaining and get back to work.


I think you are missing the point of the discussion.


Smiley: dubious

If your gal is capable of doing the work of those 3 people then she may well underpaid or under-appreciated if she's that good of a worker. Which means she may be able to get a better job elsewhere and/or those other 2 people were seriously slacking/redundant.

Or are there other details here?

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#601 Nov 23 2011 at 1:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Frankly, I think rdm should just be glad that she can afford to buy him so much weed that he can just sit on his *** all day and talk about how great it is being high.
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