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#502 Dec 08 2011 at 8:16 PM Rating: Default
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rdmcandie wrote:
gbaji wrote:

Do you agree that Dems want to raise taxes on the rich? Yes or no?


I said they did, its you claim its all they want to do not me.


You're playing the same word game Joph is playing though. It's not that this is "all" they want to do, but that everything they want to do (within the context of fixing the economy) includes raising taxes on the rich. It's the one thing they absolutely refuse to negotiate on. Is it fair to say then, that Dems believe that without raising taxes on the rich that the economy cannot recover? Yes or no?

It's like I have to lead you guys down the logic path one step at a time.
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#503 Dec 08 2011 at 8:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Joph. I'm talking about the conversation in this thread.

Please Joph!! PLEASE stop holding me to things I've said before and can't defend!! It's NOT FAIR!! Please stop acting as though I should have ANY credibility at all when I need to spin and dance and dodge and cry about how UNFAIR it is for you to ask me about things I've said before! Also, you're dangerously close to violating the cross-thread posting policy of this forum and I might have to cry a mod on you....
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#504 Dec 08 2011 at 8:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
It's not that this is "all" they want to do...

gbaji wrote:
if only we allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire on the wealthiest 2% (or whatever the number is this week), all our economic problems would be solved.


Keep lying! Smiley: laugh
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#505 Dec 08 2011 at 8:20 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Joph. I'm talking about the conversation in this thread.

Please Joph!! PLEASE stop holding me to things I've said before and can't defend!! It's NOT FAIR!! Please stop acting as though I should have ANY credibility at all when I need to spin and dance and dodge and cry about how UNFAIR it is for you to ask me about things I've said before! Also, you're dangerously close to violating the cross-thread posting policy of this forum and I might have to cry a mod on you....


You're kidding right? What are you? 5?

I'm not going to rehash an argument we had months ago Joph. And I'm certainly not going to do it when it's obvious to everyone that you're bringing that other thread up for no other reason than to avoid dealing with the conversation in this thread. What? So anytime you don't have a good response in a thread, you'll just dredge up some other thread in the past where you demanded an answer of me and didn't like the answer? Really? Grow the hell up.

Edited, Dec 8th 2011 6:21pm by gbaji
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#506 Dec 08 2011 at 8:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
You're kidding right? What are you? 5?

That would really sting if you weren't acting like my kid when he's asked about doing something wrong.

"Umm.. uhh.. well, it wasn't like that but ummm.. it was like... well, uhhh..."

He just needs to follow it up with "But... but... That was a different thread!!!" Smiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laugh

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I'm not going to rehash and argument we had months ago Joph

Of course not. You know you're cornered Smiley: grin
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#507 Dec 08 2011 at 8:24 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
It's not that this is "all" they want to do...

gbaji wrote:
if only we allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire on the wealthiest 2% (or whatever the number is this week), all our economic problems would be solved.


Keep lying! Smiley: laugh


It's the one thing they are completely unwilling to negotiate on Joph. it's why we failed to come to a debt reduction agreement. Or have you failed to keep track here? Clearly, they place "raise taxes on the rich" as the key to their plan for economic recovery.

If that's not it, then what is it?
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#508 Dec 08 2011 at 8:27 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
You're kidding right? What are you? 5?

That would really sting if you weren't acting like my kid when he's asked about doing something wrong.

"Umm.. uhh.. well, it wasn't like that but ummm.. it was like... well, uhhh..."



Yeah, cause "But Billy was mean to me 2 months ago!" is so mature!

Quote:
Quote:
I'm not going to rehash and argument we had months ago Joph

Of course not. You know you're cornered Smiley: grin


Strangely, I'm not that concerned.
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#509 Dec 08 2011 at 8:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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So you agree that their argument was NEVER purely "if only we allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire on the wealthiest 2% (or whatever the number is this week), all our economic problems would be solved."

Well, thanks! Both for admitting to your previous lies and for coming honest and clean now. I bet it felt good Smiley: smile
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#510 Dec 08 2011 at 8:32 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
So you agree that their argument was NEVER purely "if only we allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire on the wealthiest 2% (or whatever the number is this week), all our economic problems would be solved."


Don't believe I said it was their argument, much less their only argument. I said they want people to believe that so that they can get people to allow them to raise taxes on the rich. But as I said, I'm not going to rehash 2 pages of you deliberately taking my words out of context, and jumping up and down crowing as though you won something. But for the sake of moving things along, if you want to feel like you "won", by all means go ahead. I don't particularly care. My ego isn't based on winning word games with people on the interwebs.


So... Can you now acknowledge that the Dems want to raise taxes on the rich?
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#511 Dec 08 2011 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Don't believe I said it was their argument, much less their only argument

Of course you did. You said it in the very bit I've quoted repeatedly. If only we would tax the rich, all our problems would be solved.

But you admit that that was false and you were wrong for saying it so I forgive you for lying.

Quote:
My ego isn't based on winning word games with people on the interwebs.

So... Can you now acknowledge that the Dems want to raise taxes on the rich?

Too fucking funny for words.
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#512 Dec 08 2011 at 9:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Do you agree that Dems want to raise taxes on the rich? Yes or no?


By "raising" taxes on the rich, do you mean letting tax cuts expire? If so, I think you need to use some different terminology. When something is put on sale at the store, I don't complain that they are raising prices when it gets taken off sale, since I realize it is just returning to the regular price.
#513 Dec 08 2011 at 10:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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xantav wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Do you agree that Dems want to raise taxes on the rich? Yes or no?


By "raising" taxes on the rich, do you mean letting tax cuts expire? If so, I think you need to use some different terminology. When something is put on sale at the store, I don't complain that they are raising prices when it gets taken off sale, since I realize it is just returning to the regular price.

We have a winner!
#514 Dec 09 2011 at 4:48 PM Rating: Default
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I love how you cut out the significant parts of someone's post when quoting them so as to make your counter argument easier.

Jophiel wrote:
Quote:
Don't believe I said it was their argument, much less their only argument. I said they want people to believe that so that they can get people to allow them to raise taxes on the rich.

Of course you did. You said it in the very bit I've quoted repeatedly. If only we would tax the rich, all our problems would be solved.


Yes. Which is what they want people to believe, not necessarily what they vocally argue directly. You do grasp the concept that you can make people believe something without actually saying it directly, right?

Quote:
Quote:
So... Can you now acknowledge that the Dems want to raise taxes on the rich?

Too fucking funny for words.


Why is that funny? This whole little tantrum you're throwing was because you equated a statement about Dems wanting to tax the rich to some sort of strawman argument. Then I said that perhaps conservatives wouldn't keep saying that the Dems sole solution was to "tax the rich" if perhaps they actually proposed a solution which didn't involve taxing the rich.


I still don't think that's an unreasonable point. Do you? What do you expect people to think? If you can't find an example of a Dem solution which doesn't involve raising taxes on the rich, then how can you complain when conservatives point out that Democrats seem to just want to raise taxes on the rich?
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#515 Dec 09 2011 at 5:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Good to see your ego isn't riding on this Smiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laugh
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#516 Dec 09 2011 at 7:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think the problem for me is the use of the word "just".

5. Merely; only

Don't the Dems want to make cuts? I could be completely wrong and crazy, though.
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#517 Dec 09 2011 at 7:09 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
I still don't think that's an unreasonable point. Do you? What do you expect people to think? If you can't find an example of a Dem solution which doesn't involve raising taxes on the rich, then how can you complain when conservatives point out that Democrats seem to just want to raise taxes on the rich?

It's not *just* raising re-instating taxes on the rich.
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#518 Dec 09 2011 at 8:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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If there was a single key to "fixing" the economy, someone would have thought of it already.

There isn't a key at all. It's a lock that has to be picked, and you'll need a full set of locksmith's tools to do it. One of those tools is adjusting revenue. Another tool is cutting wasteful spending. Yet another tool is assessing the future of existing social welfare programs and adjusting those if necessary.

Republicans and Dems alike refuse to pick the lock with the full set of tools, which is why the economy is still slugging along at a glacial pace. The difference is that the Dems have publically come out and said they'll toss in tools #2 and 3 willingly if the Rs will just toss in tool #1 so we can get to lock picking. Its the Rs that refuse that last final and vital tool.

The reason no Dem economic recovery plan exists that doesn't include a revenue rate hike is because no feasible plan exists without one, period. The latest Boehner tax plan just got totally shot down by the CBO. I know that you guys are really trying, but elementary mathematics is against you. You're entitled to your opinion, but you're not entitled to your own math.
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#519 Dec 10 2011 at 8:35 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Well, if the rich in your country have 90% of all the money, surely they should pay 90% of all the taxes. Rather than, 40% of all the taxes. Silly Verruca.


To put this more succinctly than Varus, you're comparing apples and oranges. We don't tax the total amount of money you have. We tax the total amount you earn. And "the rich" (no matter what cutoff you use) absolutely pay a higher percentage of the total income tax than they earn in total income. The argument that the rich must "pay their fair share" is absurd because they already pay *more* than their fair share.

This is why you should pay tax on your savings as well! People earn from their savings, right?
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#520 Dec 10 2011 at 10:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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"Remember, there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire" until the early 20th century, Gingrich said.
"I think that we've had an invented Palestinian people who are in fact Arabs, and who were historically part of the Arab community. And they had a chance to go many places, and for a variety of political reasons we have sustained this war against Israel now since the 1940s, and it's tragic," he said.


The Newt speaks, I wonder if he knows that there never was an Israeli state too, at least until the mid 20th century. Smiley: lol

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/gingrich-calls-palestinians-invented-people-220646059.html
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#521 Dec 10 2011 at 11:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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When I become Supreme World Leader: I will take both Israel and Palestine, and move them to Nevada, and let them fight over ten times much land space as they're currently squabbling over. Then designate Jeruselum as its own state, sort of like the Vatican, and get the UN to patrol it instead of leaving it to the Israeli army.

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#522 Dec 11 2011 at 6:49 AM Rating: Good
catwho wrote:
When I become Supreme World Leader: I will take both Israel and Palestine, and move them to Nevada, and let them fight over ten times much land space as they're currently squabbling over. Then designate Jeruselum as its own state, sort of like the Vatican, and get the UN to patrol it instead of leaving it to the Israeli army.

Screw the UN, since it's going to be like the Vatican, let's put the Swiss Guard there, too. It would be fun seeing all of those silly uniforms investigating a suicide bombing.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#523 Dec 11 2011 at 7:41 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
This is why you should pay tax on your savings as well! People earn from their savings, right?
People do pay taxes on their savings you twit. Anything not earned in a tax free savings account accrues interest and you're supposed to pay taxes base don that interest. Anything in a tax free account pays taxes when it's drawn out.
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#524 Dec 11 2011 at 7:55 AM Rating: Excellent
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
This is why you should pay tax on your savings as well! People earn from their savings, right?
People do pay taxes on their savings you twit. Anything not earned in a tax free savings account accrues interest and you're supposed to pay taxes base don that interest. Anything in a tax free account pays taxes when it's drawn out.
True, but dividends and capital gains could be taxed more effectively in the US. Inheritance, too.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#525 Dec 11 2011 at 8:22 AM Rating: Good
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
This is why you should pay tax on your savings as well! People earn from their savings, right?
People do pay taxes on their savings you twit. Anything not earned in a tax free savings account accrues interest and you're supposed to pay taxes base don that interest. Anything in a tax free account pays taxes when it's drawn out.
True, but dividends and capital gains could be taxed more effectively in the US. Inheritance, too.
I disagree, but regardless, that's not what was being discussed. Savings are taxed.
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#526 Dec 11 2011 at 6:51 PM Rating: Decent
Interest (an earning, like dividends and capital gains) is taxed, the savings themselves aren't. At least that's how it works in the US.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#527 Dec 11 2011 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
Interest (an earning, like dividends and capital gains) is taxed, the savings themselves aren't. At least that's how it works in the US.


The savings are taxed in some way when they are first earned. After that there is no reason to tax the money again.
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#528 Dec 11 2011 at 7:07 PM Rating: Decent
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After that there is no reason to tax the money again.
Says who?
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#529 Dec 11 2011 at 7:45 PM Rating: Good
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
Quote:
After that there is no reason to tax the money again.
Says who?


If I paid tax on money (Let's say, Income), and put it in savings, why pay tax on that money again? (Not talking interest that money earns).

Really, how realistic would a tax on just savings be? Let's see... 0.25% APY on a savings account. That interest is already taxed. A tax on savings so small as to make savings still worth it? Or one that would nullify your interest earned? Or one that would actually cost you money in order to keep money in savings? Maybe it will be the "use it or lose it" tax?

Edited, Dec 11th 2011 9:03pm by TirithRR
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#530 Dec 11 2011 at 8:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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That's actually the difference between a 401K savings plan, a Roth IRA, etc. 401(k) is not taxed when it is put into savings, and as long as it is not withdrawn before age 65, it is not taxed when you withdraw it either. With Roth IRA, you only pay taxes the year it is invested, but you don't pay taxes when it's withdrawn at age 65. (I think Roth has generally has a higher interest yield generally, which is why they tax it ahead of time.) Both of them hit you with a 10% tax penalty on earnings if you take it out before 65.
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#531 Dec 11 2011 at 8:13 PM Rating: Good
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But Lube here seems to be advocating a tax on money doing nothing but sitting in savings waiting. Or just saying "Says who" for no reason and hasn't stated his true feelings.


catwho wrote:
401(k) is not taxed when it is put into savings, and as long as it is not withdrawn before age 65, it is not taxed when you withdraw it either.


I'm pretty sure that your 401k is taxed when you withdraw even after 65.
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#532 Dec 11 2011 at 8:20 PM Rating: Excellent
401(k) is taxed at a normal income rate when you retire. The 10% is a penalty for withdrawing it early. If you withdraw early, you will pay the normal tax rate, plus 10%.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

Almalieque wrote:
I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#533 Dec 12 2011 at 8:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
Interest (an earning, like dividends and capital gains) is taxed, the savings themselves aren't. At least that's how it works in the US.
Why the fuck would you want the savings taxed? You want everyone living paycheck to paycheck?
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#534 Dec 12 2011 at 8:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
You want everyone living paycheck to paycheck?

No, just everyone else. I should be living rich on my welfare checks in my mansion made of government cheese.
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#535 Dec 12 2011 at 8:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
You want everyone living paycheck to paycheck?

No, just everyone else. I should be living rich on my welfare checks in my mansion made of government cheese.
Be happy you're not Swiss.




That was really bad, but I just had to.
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#536varusword75, Posted: Dec 12 2011 at 12:05 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ugly,
#537 Dec 12 2011 at 12:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
Ugly,

Quote:
Why the @#%^ would you want the savings taxed?


Because he's a liberal and doesn't have any savings.

According to you, I'm a liberal, but I sure as hell don't want my savings taxed.
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#538 Dec 12 2011 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
According to you, I'm a liberal,
According to him, gbaji is a liberal.
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#539 Dec 12 2011 at 1:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Duke Lubriderm wrote:
Interest (an earning, like dividends and capital gains) is taxed, the savings themselves aren't. At least that's how it works in the US.
Why the fuck would you want the savings taxed? You want everyone living paycheck to paycheck?


The goal of taxing wealth isn't to keep people living paycheck to paycheck, but rather to keep more wealth productive. The numbers wouldn't be high enough to rapidly consume savings, but rather encourage commerce. It would be in lieu of certain other taxes but difficult to collect outside of bank deposited funds.
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#540 Dec 12 2011 at 3:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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@#%^ that I save money to make money, if it was going to get taxed what the hell is the point of saving it. Let alone having it taxed twice. I put my money in a tax free savings account. The catch, I am limited to only 5K a year deposit. Sure that sucks, but by the time I retire that is 200K Tax Free that I can live off of. As opposed to say an RRSP that gets the piss taxed out of it if you withdraw early (then again any contribution is tax claimable and thus it technically pays for itself if you are consistent with it.)

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#541 Dec 12 2011 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
The goal of taxing wealth isn't to keep people living paycheck to paycheck
Of course it's not. Unfortunately, there's this little thing that gets in the way called reality.
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#542 Dec 13 2011 at 7:10 AM Rating: Good
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Duke Lubriderm wrote:
Interest (an earning, like dividends and capital gains) is taxed, the savings themselves aren't. At least that's how it works in the US.
Why the fuck would you want the savings taxed? You want everyone living paycheck to paycheck?
I'm not advocating taxing the savings of every single ham and egger out there. But maybe once someone's net worth hits something like 100 million USD, then a small wealth tax could be appropriate. But then again, we could just start taxing other forms of income at the same rate we tax income earned from work (eliminating loopholes) and not have to worry about it at all.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#543 Dec 13 2011 at 8:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Unfortunately, there's this little thing that gets in the way called reality.
You read this forum enough, you should have realized a long time ago that most of the posters don't believe in reality.
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#544 Dec 13 2011 at 4:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
Ugly,

Quote:
Why the @#%^ would you want the savings taxed?


Because he's a liberal and doesn't have any savings.



I knew that burying my money in a mason jar in the backyard would pay off.
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#545 Dec 14 2011 at 7:22 AM Rating: Excellent
lolgaxe wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
According to you, I'm a liberal,
According to him, gbaji is a liberal.
Is everyone who even leans slightly left a liberal? I want to know, because I totally missed it when Varus just threw that blanket term on me. I'm certainly left of center (for the US), but at the age of 32, 100% of my senate votes have been for moderate republicans, and I have certain issues where I would either stand with the right, or somewhere in between the two. What is it with this calling anyone you don't agree with at least 80% of the time a liberal?
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

Almalieque wrote:
I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#546 Dec 14 2011 at 7:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
According to you, I'm a liberal,
According to him, gbaji is a liberal.
Is everyone who even leans slightly left a liberal?
Not really, it seems more like they use it as an insult for anyone that doesn't agree with them on absolutely everything political.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#547 Dec 14 2011 at 8:51 AM Rating: Good
Prodigal Son
*****
19,623 posts
Yeah, anyone who's not leaning so far right they've fallen over is part of "you liberals".
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#548 Dec 14 2011 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
14,829 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
Duke Lubriderm wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
According to you, I'm a liberal,
According to him, gbaji is a liberal.
Is everyone who even leans slightly left a liberal?
Not really, it seems more like they use it as an insult for anyone that doesn't agree with them on absolutely everything political.
Varus just uses it as a random insult. I've never seen him accuse anyone of being a 'conservative'.


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LOOK here.
#549 Dec 14 2011 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
***
3,272 posts
Elinda wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Duke Lubriderm wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
According to you, I'm a liberal,
According to him, gbaji is a liberal.
Is everyone who even leans slightly left a liberal?
Not really, it seems more like they use it as an insult for anyone that doesn't agree with them on absolutely everything political.
Varus just uses it as a random insult. I've never seen him accuse anyone of being a 'conservative'
Is this even possible?
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(V)(;,,;)(V) Why not Zoidberg?
#550varusword75, Posted: Dec 14 2011 at 11:59 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Elinda,
#551 Dec 14 2011 at 12:01 PM Rating: Excellent
******
41,289 posts
Gumbo Galahad wrote:
you should be insulted if someone calls you a liberal.
If you're stupid maybe. Thankfully the only stupid people here also, and "purely coincidentally," throw the word out like it was breathing to them making them easy to spot.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
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