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#1 Dec 27 2011 at 5:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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So, I spent most of the day watching as a man named Paul Christoforo sabotaged his own career before my very eyes. Anybody else read about it? (See Gabe's entry). Long story short, a rep from PR company Ocean Marketing blew up during a customer service email exchange, lashing out at some guy who was politely inquiring as to the whereabouts of a few controllers that he had ordered. After the customer CC'd some gaming sites in a later email, Mike from Penny Arcade involved himself, and the PR rep went right after him, presumably not recognizing his name. Said rep then does the same on twitter with other members of the gaming community as they subsequently distance themselves from him. All the while, he raves about how many connections he has, how many big names he knows. Reddit got a hold of it, and I'm sure the guy is knee deep in spam and hate as we speak.

I'm left kind of in awe at the whole exchange. There have been a few other similarly noteworthy PR company debacles just this past year, too. Has anybody ever worked in game marketing or the like before? I don't know what the deal is, but it seems like the code of conduct standards in that branch of the industry aren't quite up to snuff. I know I'd be in hot water simply for the misspellings in the PR rep's emails alone, let alone the complete failure to do exactly what his job required.

Tough break for the company that makes the controllers, which are for disabled gamers. They are, understandably, getting conflated with the marketing company. I wonder what effect this is having on their sales.

EDIT: For a good laugh, you can check out their website. Quite an apt quote on the front page.

Also, some weirdness on Kotaku that I'm not sure what to make of.

Edited, Dec 27th 2011 7:01pm by Eske
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#2 Dec 27 2011 at 6:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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The Penny Arcade site must be getting slammed. Can't get in.
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#3 Dec 27 2011 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
The Penny Arcade site must be getting slammed. Can't get in.

PA wrote:

I got an incredible email today from a Penny Arcade reader. Dave shared with me an email chain between him and Ocean Marketing (the folks behind the Avenger controller) Trust me when I tell you that this is one wild ride. I’m serious, Mr. Toad would look at this ride and just give a slow clap while shaking his head. I have tried to arrange this as best I can in chronological order. I’ve also removed email addresses and other private information. So let’s just jump right in, here is Dave’s first mail to Ocean Marketing:

From: Dave
To: Ocean Marketing
Dec 16, 2011, at 1:34 PM

I ordered 2 of the upcoming PS3 controllers (invoice xxxxxxxxx—Nov 3, 2011). Any chance of getting an update of when these items will ship? I’m not really happy about being forced to pay upfront then have the advertised date of “Early December” be completely missed without any sort of update on availability. I really need one of them for a X-mas present as well. Anyways, looking forward to finally using one of these bad boys. Thanks and happy holidays.

-Dave

From: Ocean Marketing
To: Dave
Dec 16, 2011 2:45 PM

Dec 17

- Paul Christoforo

From: Dave
To: Ocean Marketing
Dec 19, 2011, at 11:02 AM

Thanks for the reply Paul. Can you clarify whether my particular order already sent or if Dec 17 was the first day shipments went out? I have not received any sort of shipping confirmation email or tracking information.

From: Ocean Marketing
To: Dave
Dec 19, 2011 11:21 AM

They still haven’t shipped yet on the way here from china

From: Dave
To: Ocean Marketing
Dec 20, 2011 4:29 PM

So then delivery to customer doors by December 24th is no longer likely correct? Do you have an estimated date of when units will arrive in California? Thanks.

From: Ocean Marketing
To: Dave
Dec 20, 2011 5:11 PM

They are in the USA now in customs so its wither before or after Christmas.

From: Dave
To: Ocean Marketing
Dec 26, 2011, at 9:47 AM

I noticed the updated info on the webpage, and I don’t understand why there is absolutely no benefit given to those like me who have already ordered, and paid their money. You’ve had my money interest free for nearly two months, yet now ANY new order will get $10 off….meaning I should just cancel my order for 2 controllers, get my money back, then re-order.

My other questions is regarding item compatibility. Ocean Marketing seems to be involved with the Xtendplay controller holder, so I was wondering if the Avenger N-Controller can be used in conjunction with the Xtendplay (for both Xbox and PS3)? Thanks

From: Ocean Marketing
To: Dave
Dec 26, 2011 10:14 AM

Yes it can be used with xtend play if you remove the stand and no one is allowed to cancel and re order if we catch anyone doing it we will simply just cancel your order all together and you can buy it retail somewhere else.

Things happen in manufacturing if your unhappy you have 7 days from the day your item ships for a refund. You placed a pre order just like any software title the gets a date moved due to the tweaks and bugs not being worked out and GameStop or any other place holds your cash and im sure you don’t complain to activision or epic games so put on your big boy hat and wait it out like everyone else. The benefit is a token of our appreaciation for everyone no one is special including you or any first time buyer . Feel free to cancel we need the units were back ordered 11,000 units so your 2 will be gone fast. Maybe I’ll put them on eBay for 150.00 myself. Have a good day Dan.

At this point Dave is (I think) understandably frustrated. His next email is sent to me as well as Kotaku and a few other news sites.

-Gabe

From: Dave
To: Ocean Marketing
Dec 26, 2011 12:11 PM

Then cancel my order if you want to. I’m making a legitimate complaint about your poor communication and you’re the one stooping to childish levels, a patronizing attitude, and threats. **** you can’t even get the spelling of my name right.

And Gamespot pre-orders…wow what a terrible comparison. Retailers take a couple dollars IF THAT for you to guarantee your game availability on the release date, whatever that is. That’s the understanding and that’s what you get. Plus, I don’t have to complain to Activision or Epic games about these issues because they’re usually not missing the street dates for their AAA titles.

Now let’s take YOUR situation:
1) You’ve promised a new product based off the design for an existing, working product
2) For the longest time, you’ve stated on your website (your failure to update regularly is another issue) the initial/special/limited batch of your new product by early December, obviously in time for the all-important holiday gift-giving season. I and thousands of other customers GIVE YOU OUR MONEY, INTEREST FREE on the promises you made online.
3) I reach out to you, on Dec 16 (AFTER you have FAILED TO MEET YOUR ADVERTISED DEADLINE AND FAILED TO COMMUNICATE TO ANYONE WHAT THE SITUATION IS) obviously a little frustrated but more curious about when I and other customers can expect the product we paid for.
4) Your reply to me is a cryptic “Dec 17” with absolutely no explanation of what that means. In the mean time you having been using funds from pre-paid customers to complete Research & Development, product redesigns, and manufacturing mis-steps.
5) You force me to follow-up with an email asking for clarification about what “Dec 17” means since the day has passed and I have yet to receive any new information about my order. Now you instead of ANSWERING MY QUESTION OF WHAT THE NEW DELIVERY DATE IS, you tell me the goods have yet to leave China… Why are you telling me this? I’m not your employee I’m your **** customer! TELL ME WHAT THAT MEANS IN TERMS OF MY TIME AND WHEN I CAN EXPECT MY PRODUCT I PAID FOR.
6) So great…I have to email you AGAIN trying to get a CLEAR answer from you whether a Dec 24th delivery date is possible and if not, what the new date is. Rinse & repeat: You give me an update of the delivery process (wow, thanks…you haven’t told me anything I don’t know about the order of international shipping procedures) but instead say “...so its wither before or after Christmas.” WHAT THE **** DOES THAT MEAN? GIVE ME A DATE!? One that you’re actually going to follow, because I already see “late Nov to early Dec”; “Dec 17”; and now “CHRISTMAS” in my rear-view mirror.
7) So I guess what’s left for me to do but just wait? Oh but what’s this, you’ve updated your website…Ok at least you’ve clarified the dates more, I can expect my controller my latest first week of January. But now as a “token of our appreciation” to all your “loyal customers” (you mean like customers who put up cash for you hold an use?) you’re giving a $10 coupon. Let me get this straight…so you held my money interest free for 2 months to help bring this product to market, and now some new customer can place an order and pay $10 less than what I paid? You have financially penalized me in two ways for being a “LOYAL CUSTOMER.”

I’m SURE you’re getting tons of other inquiries and I’m sure you’re not enjoying the fact that your product is not out when you wanted it to be. I and everyone else understands that “sh*t happens,” but if you want us to be understanding of that, then you need to keep us in the loop. You’ve already set yourself up for failure by making explicit promises that aren’t even “likely” given that the design and manufacturing are still be refined. Then you make sure you’re going to fail by actually taking all of our money, Not just a little bit….THE WHOLE F*CKIN BEEFALO. Why wouldn’t we trust that you’re going to deliver our merchandise on time? Besides…it’s based off an existing product so how hard can it be? Well as your youtube video shows, making any consumer device is hard and requires many iterations and improvements. But I’m not going to apologize for holding your feet to the fire. You created these expectations by acting like the release was already a done deal and by hiding the fact that it was faaaar from it.

I want my two n-controllers. I 1) PAID FOR THEM 2) WAITED 3) DEALT WITH YOUR UNHELPFUL ASS. I also didn’t want to feel like my trust and loyalty as a customer was being abused and then actually punished in comparison to other customers. But I guess we can’t have it all… so right now I’ll settle for getting my merchandise and hopefully never having to deal with you again. I’ve spent enough time writing this email which I hope you gain some insight from. If you actually do want to **** me over by not fulfilling my order, then I assure you be hearing more from me or people representing me.

You show a surprising lack of business polish for someone who’s quite established, AND an lack of awareness of your customer base: Hardcore gamers. We’re a demanding, vocal customer but the flip side is we’re loyal and eager to spend. It’s lucky for you that I really want this product because it seems really deliver on making the gaming experience more effective and enjoyable. Hell, I want to combine the aventer-controller with the xtend play to make the ugliest, most comfortable, most awesome controller ever. And I’ll still buy the xtend, so let that be a testament to your products, the rise above your poor representation.

-DAVE with a V

p.s. You look really douchy be having one youtube video complaining about the noise of traffic next to your home and then another video showing off your obnoxiously loud rice rocket (which is nice, I gotta hand it ya).

p.p.s. Welcome to the internet, **** That’s how I roll.

From: Ocean Marketing
To: Dave
Dec 26, 2011 2:19 PM

LOL Thanks for the Free PR I know the Editor N Chief of Kotaku , IGN , Engadget I’ll be meeting them at CES .The noise complaint was for people high up on the food chain in a corporate world of real estate you have no clue about. Thanks for the Rice Rocket Compliment too love me some motorcycle . Send that over to Engadget you look like a complete moron swearing and sending your customer service complaints to a magazine as if they will post it or even pay attention do you think you’re the first or the last what are they going to do demand us to tell you were your shipment is or ask for a refund on your behalf … Really ... Welcome to the Internet ? Son Im 38 I wwebsite as on the internet when you were a sperm in your daddys balls and before it was the internet, thanks for the welcome to message wurd up. Grow up you look like a complete child bro. I Don’t have my controller so im gonna cry to the world … Really ?? Hey take that free time and do something more productive. All you had to do was check the like everyone else , people have inquired but you’re the douchiest of them all J

To all our pre-order customers looking for information on the status of their orders after a busy couple of months The PS3 Avengers are on their way from our Manufacturing plant overseas. We are aware that everyone is anticipating having their Avengers under their Christmas Tree and were doing our best to get these orders shipped out as fast as possible. We appreciate you as loyal customers and for supporting our company. Customers will start receiving their products this week before Christmas and After Christmas and into the New Year. As a token of our appreciation we are offering all our pre-order customers and new customers 10$ off your next order with us just enter Avenger1001 at Checkout. Thank you and Happy Holidays!

Oh and FYI When a street date gets pushed by a publisher on a video game you pre ordered do you cry to them too ?

You just got told **** … welcome to the real internet check kotaku in 2 weeks when they are reviewing free PS3 Avengers we send them as well as G4 and all the other majors **** yeah , don’t forget to check Amazon, gamestop.com, play n trade , Myers , Frys and a ton of other local stores coming your way you think you speak for billions son your just a kid you speak for yourself no one cares what you think that’s why were growing and moving 20-50 thousand controllers a month. We do value our customers but sometimes we get children like you we just have to put you in the corner with your im stupid hat on. See you at CES , E3 , Pax East ….? Oh wait you have to ask mom and pa dukes your not an industry professional and you have no money on snap you just got told.

The Pax East comment gets my attention and I decide to engage. I tend to have a calming effect on these sorts of arguments.

-Gabe

From: Mike Krahulik
To: Dave, Ocean Marketing
Dec 26, 2011 at 8:45 PM

Holy **** this is unbelievable. Dave, if this guy has a booth at Pax east we will cancel it.

From: Dave
To: Mike Krahulik
Dec 26, 2011 at 8:53 PM

Hey thanks Mike. It’s truly a shame because I think this device is great for gamers with disabilities and problems. I think of Child’s Play and if anyone’s gonna need greater accessibility when using complicated gamepads…it’s sick kids! **** man, I’m really gonna feel bad if I think that sick children may somewhere down the line have fewer avenger controllers because I got into a **** match with a sad old man. Please don’t cancel their booth on my account. As much as I hate this asshole, I still WANT his product and think it should be out there. GAH, I wish I was in a position to make a competing product to really stick it to guy.

From: Ocean Marketing
To: Mike Krahulik
Dec 26, 2011 at 8:54 PM

Hey Mikey,

We’re not renting a booth at pax east this year , bigger and better shows to be at we got nothing from the show . Oh so you know this guy has sold over 500 thousand dollars of product in Dec and is my main distribution arm landing us in GameStop , fry’s , Myers , Best buy , Activision , MLG , play N trade and a lot more . Were in 6 countries and you’re not going to take my money for a booth that’s a crock I can guarantee I’ll get a booth if I want one money buys a lot and connections go even further. He’s a native Bostonian from Little Italy . Who are you again ?

Oh Teh Noes!

-Gabe

From: Mike Krahulik
To: Ocean Marketing
Dec 26, 2011 at 9:08 PM

I am mike krahulik, Pax is my show. Feel free to google me=) I can promise you that you will never have space at any future Pax event.

From: Ocean Marketing
To: Mike Krahulik
Dec 26, 2011 at 9:33 PM

OK Mike whatever you say lol , are you sure hour not in Boston I spoke to the person who ran the show in Boston last year. If you let some little kid influence you over a pre order then we don’t want to be a your show ,Ill be on the floor anyway so come find me , I’m born and raised in Boston I know the people who run the city inside and out watch the way you talk to people you never know who they know it’s a small industry and everyone knows everyone. Your acting like a douchbag not that it matters pax east pax west , e3 , CES , Gamer Con , SSXW ,Comic Con, Germany I’m all over the place. If we want to be there we will be there with industry badges or with a booth you think I can’t team up with turtle beach , Callibur or Koy Christmas , I can’t get Kevin Kelly to pull some strings or G4 , Paul Eibler Ex CEO of take 2 , Rich Larocco Konami , Cliff Blizinski Epic who were working with on a gears version , Activision who were working with on a MW3 and Spider man Bundle , The Convention Center Owners themselves , Mayor of Boston come on Bud you run a show that’s all you do and lease a center in Cities you have no pull in its all about who you know not what you do. I’ll see space where ever I want , with who I want when I want and where I want so many ways around you and so many connections in this industry its silly. Anyway , I have no issue with you Sean Buckley Engadget, Scott Lowe IGN and the list goes on and on. Little kids unhappy with a PRE ORDER starting trouble and you email that to us , he’s a customer unless you’re his boyfriend then you should side with the company not the customer. Be Careful

From: Mike Krahulik
To: Ocean Marketing
Dec 26, 2011 at 9:40 PM

I do run Pax, but I also run a website called penny arcade. It’s kinda popular.

From: Ocean Marketing
To: Mike Krahulik
Dec 26, 2011 at 9:41 PM

Love penny Arcade !!

From: Mike Krahulik
To: Ocean Marketing
Dec 26, 2011 at 9:42 PM

I’m glad you like it! You will be on it tomorrow:)

From: Ocean Marketing
To: Mike Krahulik
Dec 26, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Great !! Love PR

From: Ocean Marketing
To: Mike Krahulik
Dec 26, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Mike I’m not trying to fight with you I’m really not , you should give me the benefit of the doubt before judging over one person’s **** . Did I feed into his emails a little bit too much yeah ok . But it’s one person dude for real. No disrespect intended for you , My name is good in this industry and I know a lot of people. I’ll be at CES are you going ?

From: Mike Krahulik
To: Ocean Marketing
Dec 26, 2011 at 9:47 PM

Please remove me from this mailing list

From: Ocean Marketing
To: Mike Krahulik
Dec 26, 2011 at 9:57 PM

Your spamming me you’re not on a mailing list you idiot ! You sent me an email remember . Make sure you stir up a lot of controversy about us the more the better we needed some drama gets good blood flow going about the new product launch . Your sites amateur at best my son could put together a better site than yours and you run PAX ?? Wow , Ill put my marketing team on a smear campaign of you and your site and your emails , I have about 125 dedicated people to run PR , Blogs , Articles , Videos you have no clue who I am . Thanks again

I can’t wait for the Penny Arcade smear campaign!

Oh and I’ll just leave this here:

-Gabe out

info@avengercontroller.com
Ocean Marketing Paul Christoforo on Twitter - @OceanMarketting

an update

Gabe

@cwgabriel

Tuesday, December 27 2011 - 4:05 PM

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I just wanted to post an update with some of the stuff that has happened over on my end with regards to all this Ocean Marketing stuff.

Around midnight last night Paul sent me a mail saying that I could expect to hear from their attorneys. As of right now that still has not happened and honestly I don’t expect it will. Our attorneys (who are real people with an office and everything) are ready should it get to that point though.

At 7:12am this morning I got another mail from Paul. It was one line and simply said:

“You have the power Mike Please make it stop”

The reality is that once I had posted the emails I didn’t have the power anymore. The Internet had it now and nothing I said or did was going to change that.

An hour later I got a more complete apology:

Hey Mike,

I just wanted to apologize for the way our emails progressed I didn’t know how big your site was and I really didn’t believe you ran Pax , So for what’s its worth I am very sorry. Your post has obviously made my life very difficult and I have not slept yet dealing with all the spam and personal information intrusion as well as my family being smeared on the internet.

If you can please accept my apology and anything you can do to help if not me my son and wife please do. I have apologized to Dave and apologized to you what else can I do please tell me so I can make things good. I obviously care or I would not be emailing you.

I think there is a big difference between being sorry and being sorry you got caught. I have a real problem with bullies. I spent my childhood moving from school to school and I got made fun of everyplace I landed. I feel like Paul is a bully and maybe that’s why I have no sympathy here. Someday every bully meets and even bigger bully and maybe that’s me in this case. It’s the same thing that happened with Jack Thompson. It might not always make the most business sense and it is a policy that has caused us some legal problems, but I really don’t give a **** about that. When these **** threaten me or Penny Arcade I just laugh. I will personally burn everything I’ve made to the **** ground if I think I can catch them in the flames.

-Gabe out


There ya go boss.


Also, Dave kinda ramped up the douche early, but still unprofessional to retaliate (and everything after)

"Welcome to the internet, that's how I roll **** Really ?
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#4 Dec 27 2011 at 6:46 PM Rating: Decent
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That was great.
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#5 Dec 27 2011 at 6:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Also, Dave kinda ramped up the douche early, but still unprofessional to retaliate (and everything after)


You think so? I feel like the guy was being pretty reasonable, considering that the product delivery date came and went without so much as a peep out of the company. Considering that, and the curt, uninformative responses, I'd probably be on the phone yelling at someone much earlier.

As an update, the guy apparently posted a pseudo-apology, but then went and threatened to sue Penny Arcade. Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Dec 27th 2011 7:55pm by Eske
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#6 Dec 27 2011 at 6:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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huh. Godraiden sells PS3 controllers now?
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#7 Dec 27 2011 at 7:02 PM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Quote:
Also, Dave kinda ramped up the douche early, but still unprofessional to retaliate (and everything after)


You think so? I feel like the guy was being pretty reasonable, considering that the product delivery date came and went without so much as a peep out of the company. Considering that, and the curt, uninformative responses, I'd probably be on the phone yelling at someone much earlier.

As an update, the guy apparently posted a pseudo-apology, but then went and threatened to sue Penny Arcade. Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Dec 27th 2011 7:55pm by Eske



Thing is, if a rep is being vague and dodgy (as they often do) I'll just keep pressing for details or it'll reach a point (before shipping) That I will just cancel my order.

I don't google all the guy's **** and talk bout how his motorcycle sucks and how he is kind of a **** Although now that I think about it maybe I should

Also lol@ I DIDNT KNOW YOU WERE THAT IMPORTANT, I SO SORRY near the end.
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#8 Dec 27 2011 at 7:08 PM Rating: Good
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Paul can suck a lemon, mostly because his existence forced me to take an otherwise needless class.
#9 Dec 27 2011 at 7:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Oh, dear God that was great.

At one point early on I felt like they were both being **** - I've been on the receiving end of the unhappy customer tirade before, so I have some built-in sympathy there, I suppose. But the not-so-secret secret to handling that is, never ever ever escalate the drama. EVER. Bad, bad idea. And over email? There's no excuse.

That was just unbelievably bad customer <airquote> service </airquote>. So nice to see him get smacked down. "You just got told", indeed.

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#10 Dec 27 2011 at 7:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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The dude was a **** but I find it hard to laugh too much when it turns into "Hey, here's an email... Everyone spam it!" and you involve a bajillion bored-ass dorks with nothing better to do than make someone else's life miserable.
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#11 Dec 27 2011 at 7:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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You do? I find it really easy to laugh at that.

It's been pointed out to me that I am really, really easily amused.

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#12 Dec 27 2011 at 7:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd elaborate but this forum doesn't play nice with my tablet (I'm on vacation) and I won't care enough by the time I'm home to revisit it Smiley: laugh
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#13 Dec 27 2011 at 7:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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No, I get it, Jophster. I won't be writing any angry emails or harassing the guy. But it doesn't bother me that a bunch of trolls will for a few days until the next target comes along.

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#14 Dec 27 2011 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
Yeah, short of him doing something to aggravate the situation at this point, they'll be distracted by something else pretty quickly.
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#15 Dec 27 2011 at 9:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sad very sad. I do agree with joph putting things out there, most likely knowing other folks will spam, is carrying on a bit much.


On the other hand its now only 50 more posts until 3k.

Edited, Dec 27th 2011 10:45pm by Jonwin
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#16 Dec 27 2011 at 9:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
The dude was a **** but I find it hard to laugh too much when it turns into "Hey, here's an email... Everyone spam it!" and you involve a bajillion bored-ass dorks with nothing better to do than make someone else's life miserable.


I take your meaning. There's a line somewhere for me...I guess it depends on the type of stuff he's getting. If it's just spam, I'll have a good laugh at his expense. If it crosses that line into stuff that's more detrimental to his wellbeing, well, I'll still laugh.

But then I might feel a little guilty afterwards.

PS: I love the famous last words "you look like a complete moron swearing and sending your customer service complaints to a magazine as if they will post it or even pay attention." That one came around and bit him on the ass.
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#17 Dec 28 2011 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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Today's penny arcade was, predictably, semi-related. It hits on a similar point to Joph, but with vampires.

Err, yeah.
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#18 Dec 28 2011 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Haha that is an awesome meltdown. <3 the "I guess you are a pretty big deal, shine your ass" pitch at the end.
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#19 Dec 28 2011 at 6:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wow, I don't know how the guy lasted as long as he did in PR, acting like that.

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#20 Dec 28 2011 at 9:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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He sounds like one of the guys that took PR because it was the business school's joke major. He probably skipped the class that explained how important it is to be nice to your paying customers when they have a legit grievance.
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#21 Dec 28 2011 at 9:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't get the feeling that this guy has a lot of impulse control, never mind the self-awareness needed for polite social or professional interaction. Everything I read about this mess today pointed toward his tendency to bluster, wheedle, whine and deflect blame.

Of course he's getting slammed pretty hard, so some of that is to be expected, I guess.

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#22 Dec 28 2011 at 10:20 PM Rating: Excellent
I'm just amazed that anyone would ever be so rude with customers. As a consultant I've dealt with customers that have ignored emails and asked repetitive dumb questions that I'd just answered, and been fairly irritated, but the idea that I'd ever be anything but polite to them is not an option.
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#23 Dec 28 2011 at 10:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
I'm just amazed that anyone would ever be so rude with customers. As a consultant I've dealt with customers that have ignored emails and asked repetitive dumb questions that I'd just answered, and been fairly irritated, but the idea that I'd ever be anything but polite to them is not an option.


This. You talk about your stupid customers to your co-workers and friends. You tell people, "I would love to say, 'I wwebsite as on the internet when you were a sperm in your daddys balls,' but I can't." Then you suck it up and you do your job, as politely as possible.
#24 Dec 28 2011 at 11:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Or fire clients, depending on how important they are. But usually what you said.
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#25 Dec 28 2011 at 11:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
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Also, Dave kinda ramped up the douche early, but still unprofessional to retaliate (and everything after)


You think so? I feel like the guy was being pretty reasonable, considering that the product delivery date came and went without so much as a peep out of the company. Considering that, and the curt, uninformative responses, I'd probably be on the phone yelling at someone much earlier.

As an update, the guy apparently posted a pseudo-apology, but then went and threatened to sue Penny Arcade. Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Dec 27th 2011 7:55pm by Eske


I honestly can't see Dave being a **** at all until WELL after the guy deserved it. His first email was an inquiry, combined with a mild complaint. He's well within his rights to be upset, and he wasn't agressive about it. It's this guy's job to hear about customer issues--Dave shouldn't have had to be shy about voicing his displeasure, especially when he did it like this, without being aggressive.

Honestly, I would have been **** off if a rep just responded with "December 17" to that first email. The fact that he was so composed in the next two emails is a testament to his patience--this PR guy had way more chances to make up for his early behavior. If he had just given the customer 3 minutes of his time to type out a response, even if he didn't apologize, he would have been in the clear.

Would I have sent the emails around? No. But that's because it honestly wouldn't have occurred to me that I should do so. If anything, I would have contacted the company directly regarding the Rep's behavior. But HAD it occurred to me, I would have considered it. Especially if I was in this situation and, justifiably, **** off.

Yeah, this guy will never work in PR again. But I have trouble feeling sorry for him. Accountability has to have some effect. If you fail this hard at public relations, then you shouldn't be working in the field. And, more importantly, if this is the way you'll treat your customers, you don't deserve to have them.
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#26 Dec 28 2011 at 11:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kotaku did some snooping and found the guy's email attached to the name of a user on a forum for steroid usage, IIRC. They're going with roid rage.
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#27 Dec 29 2011 at 12:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Kotaku did some snooping and found the guy's email attached to the name of a user on a forum for steroid usage, IIRC. They're going with roid rage.


Was it Kaain??
#28 Dec 29 2011 at 1:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Missed this interview yesterday.

Here's my favorite part:
Quote:

Regarding the litany of names Christoforo's e-mail called up as potential supporters - a list that included everyone from Epic Games' Cliff Bleszinski to the mayor of Boston - he said the tactic was meant to "impress, not to threaten" and didn't come through correctly because "you can't see tone of voice in email."

"I don't know the mayor of Boston," he admitted. "That was taken totally out of context, I was just joking around. I am from Boston, though, and I know a lot of people people who own clubs. I know some influential people, like the guy who runs the door at the convention center.


I'm honestly fascinated by this guy. How has he managed to appear normal long enough to get a job, let alone hold it down for any period of time? He's every "Bro" parody wrapped up into a single, real dude. His youtube videos are absurd.

On Destructoid's podcast, the British (and very drunk) guy had a great quote about his, regarding how NOT to prolong your status as the focus of the internet's ire:

"If you tell [the internet] that you're gonna be a cow full of drama milk, ripe for the sucking, they will pull on your teats until they're churning out dust."

Side note: I'm not sure that sucking on the cows teat is the way that anyone gets their milk, except Tom Green. Probably the booze talking there.

Edited, Dec 29th 2011 2:15pm by Eske

Edited, Dec 29th 2011 2:20pm by Eske
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#29 Dec 29 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Default
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Everything I read about this mess today pointed toward his tendency to bluster, wheedle, whine and deflect blame.


you're right; he'd be more successful and effective working in as a government PR rep.
ba dum dump; pssh!
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#30 Dec 30 2011 at 10:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
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Everything I read about this mess today pointed toward his tendency to bluster, wheedle, whine and deflect blame.


you're right; he'd be more successful and effective working in as a government PR rep.
ba dum dump; pssh!


False. They at least need to have basic grammar and writing skills.
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#31 Dec 30 2011 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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This is why you never promise anything to a customer when it's being shipped from China...

I once sold a gadget on Ebay that was to be shipped from China directly to the buyer in an attempt to make a few bucks (cutting myself out of the shipping and handling process.) Well, it did not arrive at the buyer's doorstep when it was supposed to, and I received several nagging emails regarding where the item was and when it would get there.

I felt really bad, and began to worry that the package would never make it there at all. I promised the buyer that I would refund his money in full if it did not arrive at his house within the next week. (It had already taken several weeks.) On the very day I was refund his money, I get an email from the buyer saying he finally got his package. All was forgiven, and we both got positive rep on Ebay.

I made a few bucks, but decided not to attempt selling more gadgets from China on Ebay due to the unreasonable amount of time it takes to be processed and shipped here after being purchased.
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#32 Dec 30 2011 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
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Kuwoobie wrote:
This is why you never promise anything to a customer when it's being shipped from China...

I once sold a gadget on Ebay that was to be shipped from China directly to the buyer in an attempt to make a few bucks (cutting myself out of the shipping and handling process.) Well, it did not arrive at the buyer's doorstep when it was supposed to, and I received several nagging emails regarding where the item was and when it would get there.

I felt really bad, and began to worry that the package would never make it there at all. I promised the buyer that I would refund his money in full if it did not arrive at his house within the next week. (It had already taken several weeks.) On the very day I was refund his money, I get an email from the buyer saying he finally got his package. All was forgiven, and we both got positive rep on Ebay.

I made a few bucks, but decided not to attempt selling more gadgets from China on Ebay due to the unreasonable amount of time it takes to be processed and shipped here after being purchased.


I imagine a business organizing a large shipment of products that they had designed and ordered wouldn't be suffering from the same effects.

As I understand it, the product was late because they were completely wrong in their estimate for R&D, either failing to give themselves a grace period or not giving them enough. The shipment from China is going to take at least 3 weeks, but they would have known that when they made the deal. I imagine its traveling here by boat, and a quick google search tells me that the trip takes an average of 11 days, and the product will sit in customs for 4-10 days. Then they need to ship it to the distributors, who will then send the product out.
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#33 Dec 30 2011 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
I'm just amazed that anyone would ever be so rude with customers. As a consultant I've dealt with customers that have ignored emails and asked repetitive dumb questions that I'd just answered, and been fairly irritated, but the idea that I'd ever be anything but polite to them is not an option.


Magi, that stalker guy, Vlorsutes...
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#34 Dec 31 2011 at 5:24 AM Rating: Good
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that stalker guy
Imperial Ninja?
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#35 Dec 31 2011 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
Kavekk wrote:
that stalker guy
Imperial Ninja?
Pretty sure.
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#36 Jan 02 2012 at 11:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Basically, Off-duty Troll trying to make someone's christmas gets a **** PR rep, goes Troll Mode, incites a fully flamed response from a supposed professional, and people are surprised? Smiley: lol As far as I'm concerned, delicious drama is delicious, and anyone in the gaming industry that doesn't realize how volatile and privacy-invasive their customers can be is either incredibly inept, one of the rare "nice people who assume everyone is nice", or pretty much just asking for it.

Kavekk wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
I'm just amazed that anyone would ever be so rude with customers. As a consultant I've dealt with customers that have ignored emails and asked repetitive dumb questions that I'd just answered, and been fairly irritated, but the idea that I'd ever be anything but polite to them is not an option.


Magi, that stalker guy, Vlorsutes...


Magi was before my time, and I only vaguely remember the "stalker guy" issue (I may go poke around and try to remember what the deal was), but Vlor at least manages to be funny about it some times. And honestly, =10's denizens can be as provocative as any youtube commenter when they want to be Smiley: laugh
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#37 Jan 03 2012 at 1:43 AM Rating: Excellent
IN was overly interested in Pikko's bento, among other creepiness.
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#38 Jan 03 2012 at 3:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Basically, Off-duty Troll trying to make someone's christmas gets a sh*tty PR rep, goes Troll Mode, incites a fully flamed response from a supposed professional, and people are surprised? Smiley: lol


Yeah, actually. The key word here is professional. Sorry, but anyone who considers themselves a PR professional should know how to deal with even the most obnoxious customers/clients.

Most organizations have a set way of dealing with issues if they escalate or if the customer/client becomes disrespectful.

None of this would have turned into an internet sensation if the professional in question had acted professionally. That should have started from the very beginning.

Example:
Quote:

From: Dave
To: Ocean Marketing
Dec 20, 2011 4:29 PM

So then delivery to customer doors by December 24th is no longer likely correct? Do you have an estimated date of when units will arrive in California? Thanks.

From: Ocean Marketing
To: Dave
Dec 20, 2011 5:11 PM

They are in the USA now in customs so its wither before or after Christmas.

Hello Dave,

I'm very sorry, but we may not be able to ensure that all pre-orders will arrive before Christmas due to unforeseen delays in the manufacturing process and shipping from our factories.

While the product has arrived from our manufacturing plants, it is currently being held by U.S. customs. We are doing everything we can to expedite the clearance of Avengers in order to have them arrive before Christmas, but some customers may not receive them in time to put them under the tree.

Thanks for your patience and understanding,

Public Relations Professional


-Spelling mistakes? Not okay. (You can get away with them once in awhile but this guy seems to have them all over)

-Vague, incomplete sentences? Not Okay.

Looking at the email chain - this is not just some dude who let a troll get his goat - this is someone who clearly is not in the habit of writing well-thought-out and clearly considered emails. I wouldn't trust him to publicize a toddler's lemonade stand, let alone a real product from a real business.



Edited, Jan 3rd 2012 1:54pm by Olorinus
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