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Corporate Greed at its finest, and why (Buy American) sucks.Follow

#1 Jan 02 2012 at 5:40 PM Rating: Decent
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http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20120102/electro-motive-london-ontario-lockout-120102/

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More than 420 auto workers in southwestern Ontario have been locked out of their jobs after contract talks with their employer hit an impasse. Electro-Motive kicked off the new year with a work stoppage against CAW members at its London, Ont. plant, the site of a bitter labour dispute over wages and benefits. The move comes about a week after the company presented workers with a final offer that would slice union wages in half, eliminate pensions and nix other benefits.


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The company has a history of butting heads with unions, including a highly publicized dust-up with the United Auto Workers in the 1990s.


Quote:
Speculation about the future of Electro-Motive's London plant intensified in October when Progress Rail opened a plant in Indiana. Questions were raised about whether the company wanted to relocate to avail of "Buy America" legislation across the border.


CAT has not yet issued a response.

About CAT-

Apx Worth (Assets) - 64B
Apx Income (Net) - 2B

420 people laid off making 35$ an hour, more like 45 with benefits. This would be a savings of about 38 million for the year. A 2% net profit. 2%. That is pathetic. That is on top of their multi million dollar tax rebate for employing in Canada. They have basically come out and said we are going to keep the work here if you give up half your wage and benefits sucks to you living within in your means now with 300-400K homes and multiple vehicles and not being able to when we rape your livelihood. If not, we are moving this south of the border to people who will work for less and we can sell our product (thanks buy american).

1.3 Billion was paid out last year to their stock holders, 1.3 billion (646 Million shares @ 2 bucks a share) a 2% decrease from that would be 26.25 million dollars or 4 cents per share. Add on top of that about 5 million dollars in Tax Relief from the government and you have 31Million or so, now your shortfall is only about 7 million. Which is about 20%. Now you go back and ask the employees if they would take a 20% pay cut or going from 45$ to 36$ (including benefits) rather than 45$ to 22.5$ (including benefits.)

What a greedy bunch of *****.
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#2 Jan 02 2012 at 5:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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We're Canada's Mexico! Smiley: grin
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#3 Jan 02 2012 at 5:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Well I guess **** really does flow down hill Smiley: sly
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#4 Jan 02 2012 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
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A for-profit company doing whatever it can to make more profit.
What a shock.
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#5 Jan 02 2012 at 6:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just have everyone get kajillion dollar jobs in your booming oil fields and we'll take the boring ole manufacturing jobs. See? Win-win!
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#6 Jan 02 2012 at 6:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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So, what you're saying is that the "Buy America" program is working as intended?
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#7 Jan 02 2012 at 7:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Timelordwho wrote:
So, what you're saying is that the "Buy America" program is working as intended?


Ya, I'm finding it hard to feel bad that a company may be doing this because they want to move and open a factory in the US. Sure, I hold Canada in higher esteem than Mexico or China, but when I hear about China/Mexico losing a job to the US I'm happy, and I feel the same regardless of the country it came from.

I'm sure RDM here would gladly throw 400 US Factory Workers under the bus if it meant the company was opening a factory to provide 400 jobs to Canadians.
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#8 Jan 02 2012 at 7:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Corporations make a lot of money off of that nationalism.
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#9 Jan 02 2012 at 7:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Especially flag manufacturers!
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#10 Jan 02 2012 at 7:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Especially flag manufacturers!


If they could get away with it they would give bulk discounts to flag burners.


Edited, Jan 2nd 2012 5:46pm by Olorinus
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#11 Jan 02 2012 at 7:47 PM Rating: Good
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The made in America label makers really have it made in America.
#12 Jan 02 2012 at 8:18 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
I'm sure RDM here would gladly throw 400 US Factory Workers under the bus if it meant the company was opening a factory to provide 400 jobs to Canadians.
I'd throw 400 US factory workers under the bus for the **** of it, let alone if we got something out of it.
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#13 Jan 02 2012 at 8:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Is it an American made bus?
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#14 Jan 02 2012 at 9:27 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm sure RDM here would gladly throw 400 US Factory Workers under the bus if it meant the company was opening a factory to provide 400 jobs to Canadians.


No I probably wouldn't considering my company is around solely to provide parts to your American manufacturing sector. I personally think that these people make to much money for what they do(**** I make to much money for what I do too.) But to cut wages by 50% and benefits is just being greedy ******* douche bags. Considering with a 2% reduction to stock holder (dividend) earnings you can offer these same employees a 20% reduction to wages and benefits. Its greed and that is all there is to it.

(I think that employees should have reduced wages they make way to much money for the work they do, **** so do I and I would gladly take a 20% cut if the company took a 2% cut.)

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#15 Jan 03 2012 at 12:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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So can someone tell a lazy Ozzie what the details of the Buy American system is?
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#16 Jan 03 2012 at 1:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Certain government spending programs (the stimulus among others) have a provision stating that whatever is being bought for it needs to be American made if at all possible. Caterpillar (the tractors/heavy machines guys) is saying that if their Canadian workers won't accept their terms, they'll move shop to the US where they can take advantage of the Buy American provisions. CAT actually has US plants already but I guess the machines made in Canada aren't eligible and maybe those models aren't currently made in the US.
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#17 Jan 03 2012 at 5:01 AM Rating: Default
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Canada was given an exemption in the first round of buy american (which was tied to the stimulus) but the more recent one (I want to say late summer early fall) has not given Canada an exemption. I can only imagine it is out of spite, spite that the canadian economy overall (while jobs have not fully rebounded the amount of money earned by workers has increased) has rebounded and depending on how you gauge the economy over taken prerecession levels.

The problem with Buy American is that isolationism (which this practically is) has been dead since free trade markets have been established, with the worlds economy so tied together isolationism doesn't benefit the overall economy, nor the people of the nation on the same level it did in say the 70's or 80's.

From my understanding this applies only to raw materials and not finished products. I remember in the "original" Canada became outraged because the US refused some red dye put into steal because it was made in China. This sparked a small spat with Canada and the US with the US eventually inking a buy canadian "if you" have to provision.

Due to how NAFTA works it doesn't make sense to limit Canada or Mexico as the rules disallow the countries to undercut each other. Basically once the base price for a good or service has been set that is what all 3 countries work from. The only factor that plays into it is currency valuation, which over the past decade has seen American companies lose 30 cents on the dollar as the Canadian Loonie has climbed to parity from 67 cents back in '00.

I think the Buy American stuff in this case is just the company making idle threats, considering that my company is actually increasing production for American manufacturers across the USA. So either Electromotive (CAT) is dealing with someone who falls under the buy American provisions or they are just blowing smoke. But my company deals with GM almost exclusively and they received a hefty bailout. So really I dunno.

To me I think that Buy American is a feel good phrase uttered by washington to make it seem like they care, it isn't going to create more work for Americans, in fact it is probably going to cost jobs in the long run as people will just trade else where. (China)
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#18 Jan 03 2012 at 6:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you think it's just idle threats, why are you ******** about it in this thread?
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#19 Jan 03 2012 at 7:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Really though. If all someone wanted to do was ***** about corporate greed or the US, any thread would do fine for that.
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#20 Jan 03 2012 at 7:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

To me I think that Buy American is a feel good phrase uttered by washington to make it seem like they care, it isn't going to create more work for Americans, in fact it is probably going to cost jobs in the long run as people will just trade else where.


No, it generates more low-mid level jobs for manufacturing/durables sector workers, generates higher margins for corporate ownership, and floats these sectors on the back of inflated costs for public works, meaning that less overall useful public infrastructure will be put in place. It will also probably lead to some MIC cuts in a roundabout fashion, but an overall better level of national control over mili-tech assets. It's economic isolationism, but Americans love that; almost as much as they love military adventurism.

Can't say I love the strategy, but it's probably useful for near term politics. If that results in some strong long term policy getting hammered out, then I feel that the ends justify the means, since it can be scrapped once the subsidized sectors outlive their political usefulness.

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#21 Jan 03 2012 at 8:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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rdmcandie wrote:
From my understanding this applies only to raw materials and not finished products.

This didn't sound right (I've bid on a bit of stimulus work) so I looked it up.
The government wrote:
The Buy American provision in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (section 1605 of Title XVI), provides that, unless one of three listed exceptions applies (nonavailability, unreasonable cost, and inconsistent with the public interest), and a waiver is granted, none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by the Act may be used for a project for the construction, alteration, maintenance, or repair of a public building or public work unless all the iron, steel, and manufactured goods used are produced in the United States.

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#22 Jan 03 2012 at 8:10 AM Rating: Good
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I guess biometal composites get a pass, since they are neither manufactured, nor steel. But then again, they aren't really in heavy use since they are so new.
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