In my foreign land, murder is OKFollow

You could also ask why Martin felt he needed to duck and hide because a car was driving down the street too. Given that he's in a gated community and it should be pretty safe, the odds that someone driving down the street is intending you harm is pretty darn low, right? Isn't it possible that both men allowed their own perceptions to run a bit wild here? What if the sequence was something like this:

Zimmerman sees a guy walking along the street and slows down to take a closer look. Martin sees a car slowing down and ducks down a sidewalk. Zimmerman thinks this is suspicious and loops around to the next row of houses. Martin sees the same vehicle there and confirms his suspicion that someone is after him and changes direction again. Zimmerman sees this as confirmation that Martin is up to no good and loops around again. Martin sees him yet again and really believes this guy in the car is up to no good, so he takes off running. Zimmerman chases him. At some point, there's an altercation. Perhaps Martin at this point believes his life is in danger, and turns to fight. Zimmerman sees his attempt to fight as a threat to his life and draws his gun. There's a struggle. Gun goes off. Martin is dead.


Something had to have happened beyond the norm on Martin's part. It's not like lots of people (yes, even black people) don't walk through that community every day. If Martin had just walked down the street normally, I doubt any of this would have happened. The absolute worst would have been Zimmerman swinging by, asking him if he lives in the area, Martin saying he did, and both going about their business. If I ran away every time some neighborhood watch or local busy body stopped and asked me who I was and why I was somewhere, I'd have been in a whole hell of a lot of stupid altercations as well. I suspect that this was a tragic escalation on both sides. But I'd rather we let the police investigate and find out if there's evidence of something more than that before assuming anything.

Trayvon Martin lived in Miami and was visiting his father and his father's girlfriend who lived in that gated community. He didn't know the area that well and so I wouldn't be surprised if he was be ducking for cover if he saw the same car (Zimmerman's car) passing him multiple times. Zimmerman claimed that Martin attacked him when Zimmerman slowed down to look at a street sign because he wasn't sure which street he was on. I find that claim ludicrous because he's appointed himself the neighborhood watch captain and he doesn't know his own neighborhood?

When Martin tried to lose Zimmerman and found that Zimmerman was chasing him, his girlfriend who was on the phone with him heard him say "Why are you following me?" At that point, she heard shoving and the connection ended. That doesn't sound like he turned to fight Zimmerman.

Zimmerman was already told by police dispatch that he shouldn't follow Martin and to allow the police responder to handle it. He did not. By all accounts it appears that he initiated, he escalated, and the police botched the investigation after that boy's death.

It sounds like their behavior set off alarm bells with each other, and there's plenty of "he said she said" that seems to be around these days. I'm assuming all that will get worked out in the end. But still the gun thing, it's probably just me but I don't know.

I mean, bad neighborhood? Yeah, ok.
Somewhere it'll take the local sheriff 30 minutes to drive out to you? I'll buy that.
Sanford FL? Well never been there, but I got the impression it was a nicer suburb.

Just seems like an odd place to have a gun as part of an unofficial neighborhood watch. I mean if I lived somewhere like what I imagine it to be, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with a "security" person having a gun there.

But don't know the place that well I guess...

I disagree. I don't believe I should be allowed to carry when I'm in civilian garb, or even in uniform but not on any security detail or the such (though, just like my job: I don't have to believe in something to take advantage of the benefits), but law enforcement? It might be rare, but not unheard of for officers to be attacked when just out and minding their own business because the assailants believed a wrong was done against them. Both real and perceived injustices, and I believe that the chance of misuse is much lower (considering the lengths you have to go to just to get a concealed permit in NYC: Spoilerfinger printed, weapon registrations, background and security checks, and justification as far as I remember. They're not exactly the easiest pieces of paper to get. The fee is, admittedly, negligible. All things considering, I kind of doubt Zimmerman even had a CWP, but that's besides the point) than the possibility of retaliation, or at the very least equally likely, and would err on the side of caution.

Really, if anyone should have it, it should be law enforcement, off and on duty. I see it the same way as soldiers in war zones. Just because you're off duty doesn't mean the potential for violence against you for what you are isn't there. Everyone else is highly debatable.

He's been following this kid for a good 2 minutes before he tells the dispatcher that the kid started to run away from him.

And go ahead and listen at 2:21 for when you get to hear his nice racial slur. It's not hard to make out, at all.

I stand corrected on the numbers. But every call that Zimmerman made to police that day were to report "suspicious persons" were African-American.

Further, Zimmerman actually didn't even call 9-1-1. He called the nonemergency line to report. That leads me to believe that it wasn't a true emergency. If it was a true emergency, where he thought his life was threatened, he would have called 9-1-1. By law, he didn't have to follow the dispatcher when the dispatcher told him not to follow Martin. But he did anyways. If he truly thought it was an emergency where his life or his neighborhood was threatened and could justify use of deadly force, why didn't he call 9-1-1?

Have you listened to the 9-1-1 call? Zimmerman is completely calm during the call. He doesn't sound scared, never stated that he was scared, never said that he thought he was in danger. He said that Martin was checking him out, had something in his hand, and then Martin started running. That's when he started chasing after Martin. Dispatch told he didn't have to run after Zimmerman but Zimmerman did. He wasn't obliged to do what dispatch told him to do, but he did anyways. Listen to 2:22, which is where the supposed slur is said.

There are already enough witnesses to contradict Zimmerman's theory of self-defense. People found him moments after the shooting standing over the body. Witnesses were saying that it sounded like it was a young boy crying for help.

I don't believe that it was Zimmerman crying for help. I believe that Trayvon was screaming for help during the fight. I believed that Zimmerman cornered Trayvon and when Trayvon tried to get away, Zimmerman took it upon himself to try to "capture" Trayvon. He helped capture a thief once before, wanted to be a cop and he wanted to do it again.

It was not self-defense. Zimmerman initiated and escalated this situation. He was neighborhood watch and not a cop. He tried to be a vigilante and now just showed why vigilante justice can be so dangerous.

ETA: I already pointed out why there is such a fury over this situation. The police investigation was shoddy and witnesses are claiming that their statements were twisted or leading questions were used. Remember, Trayvon Martin died on February 26. It's now March 21, almost a month later. During that entire time, the one witness that the police NEVER contacted was Trayvon Martin's girlfriend. The one he was on the phone with just seconds before Zimmerman caught up with him. What excuse is there for the police not to cover that glaring hole in their investigation? If the police did their job correctly, Zimmerman's self-defense theory would have have been weakened weeks ago.

I will say that I am going to wait to see what the autopsy results say about Trayvon Martin's body. If the autopsy comes out that he had no marks (and I should with that phrase in this forum) to indicate a fight with Zimmerman, I want to see how Zimmerman can say that he was in fear for his life to justify deadly force under the Stand Your Ground law, particularly when he was already chasing Trayvon.


Edited, Mar 21st 2012 4:11pm by Thumbelyna

The kid was allegedly talking to his sister on the phone. Y'know, the phone that looked like a gun. From a distance.

There was no reasonable assumption of threat here. The kid was black, and that's it.

How old was this kid? He looks about 16 or so. Never mind he's 17

This Zimmerman guy is what? Twice his age and weight? There's no way he was threatened here. Ridiculous.

Edited, Mar 21st 2012 7:15pm by Nilatai

And? That's exactly what he's supposed to do. Or do you think that someone who's on a neighborhood watch patrol, upon seeing someone he believes is suspicious, should call the police and then drive off and hope everything works out ok? He kept an eye on Martin until the police could arrive. But before they did so, Martin bolted and ran. Obviously, we can question Zimmerman's choice to chase him, but nothing up to that point was wrong.



I can't listen to audio tapes right at the moment, but I've read the transcripts and I've read reports from two different news outlets who've had audio experts listen to the tape. One said that they could not determine the word, the other said that it was "punks". The only reason you think it's a racist slur is because you've read dozens of posts and statements that he said "coons". So that's what you hear when you listen to the tape.

Strip away the assumptions other people are saying and just look at the facts. I know that this is hard for most people to do, but if you do this you'll realize that there isn't anything to indicate racism as a motivation.

That's what you're supposed to do. It's what they're for.

Actually you're fully entitled to performed a citizen's arrest, which would be where you detain an individual until the proper authorities arrive should you catch someone in the midst of a crime and escape is highly likely. Though it doesn't entitle one to shoot someone, should there be a scuffle and the individual attempting a CA feels his life is in danger, then (depending on the state) deadly force is allowed.

Note that I'm not talking about the case with Zimmerman, just saying that "report and hope for the best" isn't exactly correct when it comes to civilian organizations like neighborhood watch and such.

WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE GETTING SIDETRACKED BY GBAJI'S RACISM BULLSHIT?

This kid was killed, regardless of if the guy was racist or not, he still murdered a child.

He needs to be put away for a long time.