Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

In my foreign land, murder is OKFollow

#27 Mar 21 2012 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
******
20,020 posts
gbaji wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
No evidence? You really don't get your news from anywhere.


Yes. No evidence. As in aside from people speculating that it might have been racially motivated and repeating that speculation, there's no actual evidence that racism played any role at all. Wild speculation that he said "f-ing coons" during the 911 call turned out to be just that: wild speculation. So other than the fact that the victim was black, what evidence is there that racism was a factor?


First of all, I'd like a cite that it was just wild speculation.

Second of all, Thumbelyna pointed out that he seems to have been profiling blacks for quite a while.

Finally, we have yet to see ANY reason to believe that the teen was "suspicious" for any reason other than the fact that he was black.

[EDIT]
Quote:
Also, that there was a physical altercation and struggle prior to the gunshot going off. The victims girlfriend's account confirms this. Now, perhaps a 28 year old 240lb man ran down a 140lb 17 year old, or perhaps there's more to the story than the simplistic version you're hearing from one side?


Last I checked, the testimony from several unconnected witnesses is not "one side".

Furthermore, we have no reason to believe that the kid initiated any attack. And, if he did, he was justified in doing so because (in virtue of STALKING him), Zimmerman had definitely presented himself as a threat.

Edited, Mar 21st 2012 5:06pm by idiggory
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#28 Mar 21 2012 at 3:15 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
34,982 posts
someproteinguy wrote:
I still want to know why he felt he needed a handgun for patrolling a gated community though. It just doesn't strike me as dangerous enough to justify it from my distance. I imagine he has his reasons though, and I'm sure we'll hear them in time.


You could also ask why Martin felt he needed to duck and hide because a car was driving down the street too. Given that he's in a gated community and it should be pretty safe, the odds that someone driving down the street is intending you harm is pretty darn low, right? Isn't it possible that both men allowed their own perceptions to run a bit wild here? What if the sequence was something like this:

Zimmerman sees a guy walking along the street and slows down to take a closer look. Martin sees a car slowing down and ducks down a sidewalk. Zimmerman thinks this is suspicious and loops around to the next row of houses. Martin sees the same vehicle there and confirms his suspicion that someone is after him and changes direction again. Zimmerman sees this as confirmation that Martin is up to no good and loops around again. Martin sees him yet again and really believes this guy in the car is up to no good, so he takes off running. Zimmerman chases him. At some point, there's an altercation. Perhaps Martin at this point believes his life is in danger, and turns to fight. Zimmerman sees his attempt to fight as a threat to his life and draws his gun. There's a struggle. Gun goes off. Martin is dead.


Something had to have happened beyond the norm on Martin's part. It's not like lots of people (yes, even black people) don't walk through that community every day. If Martin had just walked down the street normally, I doubt any of this would have happened. The absolute worst would have been Zimmerman swinging by, asking him if he lives in the area, Martin saying he did, and both going about their business. If I ran away every time some neighborhood watch or local busy body stopped and asked me who I was and why I was somewhere, I'd have been in a whole **** of a lot of stupid altercations as well. I suspect that this was a tragic escalation on both sides. But I'd rather we let the police investigate and find out if there's evidence of something more than that before assuming anything.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#29 Mar 21 2012 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
******
20,020 posts
You're kidding, right? No, really? No, you're just that willing to twist evidence? I see.

The car was following him for an extended period, going the same speed he was. After he LOST the car, it caught up to him and followed him more.

This is confirmed by the accounts of the 911 calls (Zimmerman's) and the testimony of his girlfriend, who he was talking to on the phone.
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#30 Mar 21 2012 at 3:43 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
*****
10,795 posts
gbaji wrote:


You could also ask why Martin felt he needed to duck and hide because a car was driving down the street too. Given that he's in a gated community and it should be pretty safe, the odds that someone driving down the street is intending you harm is pretty darn low, right? Isn't it possible that both men allowed their own perceptions to run a bit wild here? What if the sequence was something like this:

Zimmerman sees a guy walking along the street and slows down to take a closer look. Martin sees a car slowing down and ducks down a sidewalk. Zimmerman thinks this is suspicious and loops around to the next row of houses. Martin sees the same vehicle there and confirms his suspicion that someone is after him and changes direction again. Zimmerman sees this as confirmation that Martin is up to no good and loops around again. Martin sees him yet again and really believes this guy in the car is up to no good, so he takes off running. Zimmerman chases him. At some point, there's an altercation. Perhaps Martin at this point believes his life is in danger, and turns to fight. Zimmerman sees his attempt to fight as a threat to his life and draws his gun. There's a struggle. Gun goes off. Martin is dead.


Something had to have happened beyond the norm on Martin's part. It's not like lots of people (yes, even black people) don't walk through that community every day. If Martin had just walked down the street normally, I doubt any of this would have happened. The absolute worst would have been Zimmerman swinging by, asking him if he lives in the area, Martin saying he did, and both going about their business. If I ran away every time some neighborhood watch or local busy body stopped and asked me who I was and why I was somewhere, I'd have been in a whole **** of a lot of stupid altercations as well. I suspect that this was a tragic escalation on both sides. But I'd rather we let the police investigate and find out if there's evidence of something more than that before assuming anything.


Trayvon Martin lived in Miami and was visiting his father and his father's girlfriend who lived in that gated community. He didn't know the area that well and so I wouldn't be surprised if he was be ducking for cover if he saw the same car (Zimmerman's car) passing him multiple times. Zimmerman claimed that Martin attacked him when Zimmerman slowed down to look at a street sign because he wasn't sure which street he was on. I find that claim ludicrous because he's appointed himself the neighborhood watch captain and he doesn't know his own neighborhood?

When Martin tried to lose Zimmerman and found that Zimmerman was chasing him, his girlfriend who was on the phone with him heard him say "Why are you following me?" At that point, she heard shoving and the connection ended. That doesn't sound like he turned to fight Zimmerman.

Zimmerman was already told by police dispatch that he shouldn't follow Martin and to allow the police responder to handle it. He did not. By all accounts it appears that he initiated, he escalated, and the police botched the investigation after that boy's death.


#31 Mar 21 2012 at 3:53 PM Rating: Excellent
Worst. Title. Ever!
*****
16,909 posts
Somehow, even if the law ends up allowing a tragedy like this to be legal, you'd think that arrest, questioning, and thorough investigations would be the way to approach it.

Someone killed another person. Even if it ends up being a legal killing (strange way to say that...), the person doing the killing should be held until it is investigated and determined legal. Now I'm not saying they should be held in "Federal Pound-Me-In-The-*** Prison" but a simple detention area. Even if in the end all the purpose served was to show people and the society as a whole that so called "self defense" killings are not and should not be taken lightly. It would hopefully give some solace to the killed individual's family, that a proper investigation was made and the person was held, and deter the killer from making the decision so easily.
____________________________
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
#32 Mar 21 2012 at 4:06 PM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,400 posts
gbaji wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
I still want to know why he felt he needed a handgun for patrolling a gated community though. It just doesn't strike me as dangerous enough to justify it from my distance. I imagine he has his reasons though, and I'm sure we'll hear them in time.


You could also ask why Martin felt he needed to duck and hide because a car was driving down the street too. Given that he's in a gated community and it should be pretty safe, the odds that someone driving down the street is intending you harm is pretty darn low, right?


It sounds like their behavior set off alarm bells with each other, and there's plenty of "he said she said" that seems to be around these days. I'm assuming all that will get worked out in the end. But still the gun thing, it's probably just me but I don't know.

I mean, bad neighborhood? Yeah, ok.
Somewhere it'll take the local sheriff 30 minutes to drive out to you? I'll buy that.
Sanford FL? Well never been there, but I got the impression it was a nicer suburb.

Just seems like an odd place to have a gun as part of an unofficial neighborhood watch. I mean if I lived somewhere like what I imagine it to be, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with a "security" person having a gun there.

But don't know the place that well I guess...
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#33 Mar 21 2012 at 4:06 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
34,982 posts
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
gbaji wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
No evidence? You really don't get your news from anywhere.


Yes. No evidence. As in aside from people speculating that it might have been racially motivated and repeating that speculation, there's no actual evidence that racism played any role at all. Wild speculation that he said "f-ing coons" during the 911 call turned out to be just that: wild speculation. So other than the fact that the victim was black, what evidence is there that racism was a factor?


First of all, I'd like a cite that it was just wild speculation.


Um... In the linked article in the OP?

Quote:
Heated debate has erupted over whether Zimmerman used a racial slur during the 911 call, a recording of which was released this week.

"We didn't hear it. However, I am not sure what was said," Sgt. David Morgenstern of the Sanford Police Department said.

A top CNN audio engineer enhanced the sound of the 911 call and several members of CNN's editorial staff repeatedly reviewed the tape, but could reach no consensus on whether Zimmerman used a racial slur.


So audio engineers enhancing the tape can't determine if a racial slur was used, yet random people hearing the tape concluded that he did and repeated that so much that it created a "heated debate". That's kinda the definition of "wild speculation". Someone hears a word that they can't make out and "speculate" that it might be racist. They repeat that speculation. Others pick it up, assume it's true (as Thumb did in her earlier post in fact), and others hearing/reading that form their opinions based on a reported "fact" that is not factual at all.

Quote:
Second of all, Thumbelyna pointed out that he seems to have been profiling blacks for quite a while.


Strange that you didn't demand a cite from her. No wait. It's not strange. It's completely consistent with your incredibly biased demand for such citations. Here's some actual data

Quote:
This afternoon six of the calls made by George Zimmerman were released by theSeminole County Sheriff's Office.

In four of the recordings Zimmerman called police to report "suspicious" persons — all of whom were black — in or near the Retreat at Twin Lakes neighborhood.


and...

Quote:
Records show Zimmerman, 28, called the cops 46 times between January 2011 and Feb. 26.

Many of the calls appear related to his crime-watch volunteer role. The most frequent reason for his calls — nine times — was to report a suspicious person, according to Sanford Police Department records released last week.


So the "all of whom were black" refers only to 4 of the calls. Which were specifically those in which the suspicious people were black. Cart leading horse. Of the 46 calls, 9 of them were for suspicious people. 4 of whom we know were black. Hardly the implication made by Thumb (and repeated by you).

This isn't evidence of racism. It's cherry picking of the facts in order to make people think that there was racism involved.

Quote:
Finally, we have yet to see ANY reason to believe that the teen was "suspicious" for any reason other than the fact that he was black.


So because you personally haven't had an alternative reason put in front of your face, it's ok to just assume it was because he was black? Seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

Quote:
Quote:
Also, that there was a physical altercation and struggle prior to the gunshot going off. The victims girlfriend's account confirms this. Now, perhaps a 28 year old 240lb man ran down a 140lb 17 year old, or perhaps there's more to the story than the simplistic version you're hearing from one side?


Last I checked, the testimony from several unconnected witnesses is not "one side".


You're not reacting to the testimony from those witnesses though. You're reacting to selected parts of their testimony being repeated by what can accurately be called a "side" of the issue and which seems to primarily be acting emotionally rather than rationally.

Quote:
Furthermore, we have no reason to believe that the kid initiated any attack. And, if he did, he was justified in doing so because (in virtue of STALKING him), Zimmerman had definitely presented himself as a threat.


And if he did, Zimmerman was justified to defend himself. Obviously, neither you nor I know every detail of what lead to that altercation. The difference is that I'm not making broad assumptions about it, while you (and a whole **** of a lot of other people) are. You're reacting to and repeating statements made by people who are themselves repeating emotionally laden half-truths. Try stopping, taking a breath, and seeing if you can get more information and make a more informed decision.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#34 Mar 21 2012 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
******
49,824 posts
BrownDuck wrote:
I don't even think off-duty police officers should carry them.
I disagree. I don't believe I should be allowed to carry when I'm in civilian garb, or even in uniform but not on any security detail or the such (though, just like my job: I don't have to believe in something to take advantage of the benefits), but law enforcement? It might be rare, but not unheard of for officers to be attacked when just out and minding their own business because the assailants believed a wrong was done against them. Both real and perceived injustices, and I believe that the chance of misuse is much lower (considering the lengths you have to go to just to get a concealed permit in NYC: finger printed, weapon registrations, background and security checks, and justification as far as I remember. They're not exactly the easiest pieces of paper to get. The fee is, admittedly, negligible. All things considering, I kind of doubt Zimmerman even had a CWP, but that's besides the point) than the possibility of retaliation, or at the very least equally likely, and would err on the side of caution.

Really, if anyone should have it, it should be law enforcement, off and on duty. I see it the same way as soldiers in war zones. Just because you're off duty doesn't mean the potential for violence against you for what you are isn't there. Everyone else is highly debatable.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#35 Mar 21 2012 at 4:23 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
34,982 posts
TirithRR wrote:
Somehow, even if the law ends up allowing a tragedy like this to be legal, you'd think that arrest, questioning, and thorough investigations would be the way to approach it.


He was detained and questioned by police though. Are you arguing that charges should be filed for manslaughter automatically in any case where someone shoots another person?

Quote:
Someone killed another person. Even if it ends up being a legal killing (strange way to say that...), the person doing the killing should be held until it is investigated and determined legal.


Wait until the emotions of this specific case fade and then read what you just wrote. We have a whole set of rules that require that the law must be applied the exact opposite (guilty until proven innocent). The police must provide sufficient evidence of a crime to detain someone until a full investigation and/or trial occurs. Otherwise, the most they can hold someone for is 72 hours (this may vary from state to state). There are very very good reasons for that restriction on police powers.

Quote:
Now I'm not saying they should be held in "Federal Pound-Me-In-The-*** Prison" but a simple detention area. Even if in the end all the purpose served was to show people and the society as a whole that so called "self defense" killings are not and should not be taken lightly. It would hopefully give some solace to the killed individual's family, that a proper investigation was made and the person was held, and deter the killer from making the decision so easily.


Ok. Different scenario. You're in Florida and have a concealed carry permit. You're walking down the street when you hear a woman calling for help from down an alley. You run down the alley and see a man beating a woman and possibly attempting to rape her. You rush in to help and the man turns around and heads towards you threateningly. You pull out your gun and fire, killing the man.

How long should you be held in a detention center in that case? And wouldn't that sort of policy result in fewer people coming to the aid of others? See. If you just stand on the street and call 911, you're free from risk. If you get involved, you will go to jail. Hardly a reward for someone we'd normally hail as a hero, right?


You can say that those two cases are completely different, but from the point of view of the law, they are not. All the police know is that when they arrive, there's a man dead and another man with a gun claiming that the first man was threatening him. Even with a witness, for all you know she could be lying. We can always speculate that someone conspired in some way to kill someone else and make it look like self defense, and there's no way for the law to directly or immediately differentiate that.

Which is why we should allow the police to investigate and if they find something to indicate that charges should be filed, then they can do so. Rushing in, emotions running full steam, and demanding "justice" isn't really about justice at all.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#36 Mar 21 2012 at 4:28 PM Rating: Good
******
20,020 posts

He's been following this kid for a good 2 minutes before he tells the dispatcher that the kid started to run away from him.

And go ahead and listen at 2:21 for when you get to hear his nice racial slur. It's not hard to make out, at all.
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#37 Mar 21 2012 at 4:39 PM Rating: Good
Worst. Title. Ever!
*****
16,909 posts
gbaji wrote:
Wait until the emotions of this specific case fade and then read what you just wrote. We have a whole set of rules that require that the law must be applied the exact opposite (guilty until proven innocent). The police must provide sufficient evidence of a crime to detain someone until a full investigation and/or trial occurs. Otherwise, the most they can hold someone for is 72 hours (this may vary from state to state). There are very very good reasons for that restriction on police powers.


I realize what I said could be a gross infringement on rights. I sat on that post for a good while before hitting enter wondering if I should even post it. Obviously a single person talking about a single case does not a good law make, but as is it seems like a pretty crappy way for the legal system to handle self defense killings.
____________________________
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
#38 Mar 21 2012 at 4:59 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
*****
10,795 posts
I stand corrected on the numbers. But every call that Zimmerman made to police that day were to report "suspicious persons" were African-American.

Further, Zimmerman actually didn't even call 9-1-1. He called the nonemergency line to report. That leads me to believe that it wasn't a true emergency. If it was a true emergency, where he thought his life was threatened, he would have called 9-1-1. By law, he didn't have to follow the dispatcher when the dispatcher told him not to follow Martin. But he did anyways. If he truly thought it was an emergency where his life or his neighborhood was threatened and could justify use of deadly force, why didn't he call 9-1-1?

Have you listened to the 9-1-1 call? Zimmerman is completely calm during the call. He doesn't sound scared, never stated that he was scared, never said that he thought he was in danger. He said that Martin was checking him out, had something in his hand, and then Martin started running. That's when he started chasing after Martin. Dispatch told he didn't have to run after Zimmerman but Zimmerman did. He wasn't obliged to do what dispatch told him to do, but he did anyways. Listen to 2:22, which is where the supposed slur is said.

There are already enough witnesses to contradict Zimmerman's theory of self-defense. People found him moments after the shooting standing over the body. Witnesses were saying that it sounded like it was a young boy crying for help.

I don't believe that it was Zimmerman crying for help. I believe that Trayvon was screaming for help during the fight. I believed that Zimmerman cornered Trayvon and when Trayvon tried to get away, Zimmerman took it upon himself to try to "capture" Trayvon. He helped capture a thief once before, wanted to be a cop and he wanted to do it again.

It was not self-defense. Zimmerman initiated and escalated this situation. He was neighborhood watch and not a cop. He tried to be a vigilante and now just showed why vigilante justice can be so dangerous.

ETA: I already pointed out why there is such a fury over this situation. The police investigation was shoddy and witnesses are claiming that their statements were twisted or leading questions were used. Remember, Trayvon Martin died on February 26. It's now March 21, almost a month later. During that entire time, the one witness that the police NEVER contacted was Trayvon Martin's girlfriend. The one he was on the phone with just seconds before Zimmerman caught up with him. What excuse is there for the police not to cover that glaring hole in their investigation? If the police did their job correctly, Zimmerman's self-defense theory would have have been weakened weeks ago.

I will say that I am going to wait to see what the autopsy results say about Trayvon Martin's body. If the autopsy comes out that he had no marks (and I should Smiley: lol with that phrase in this forum) to indicate a fight with Zimmerman, I want to see how Zimmerman can say that he was in fear for his life to justify deadly force under the Stand Your Ground law, particularly when he was already chasing Trayvon.


Edited, Mar 21st 2012 4:11pm by Thumbelyna
#39 Mar 21 2012 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
******
21,720 posts
Thumbelyna Quick Hands wrote:
Listen to 2:22, which is where the supposed slur is said.


There's no 'supposed' about it. He can clearly be heard muttering ************* ****" to himself under his breath. That doesn't necessarily make this a hate crime, but it does establish the fact that he was racist. At any rate, yeah, he was supposed to wait and meet the cops at the gates. Self-defense my ******* ***.
____________________________
R.I.P. Jessica M. 5/3/2010
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.
gbaji wrote:
You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#40 Mar 21 2012 at 5:09 PM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
******
29,244 posts
Omegavegeta wrote:
While I'm outraged by this, I don't know if they'll be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt it wasn't self defense. That + Florida's dumb law might make it even harder to convict Zimmerman of murder.

Racism is a motherfucker.



The kid was allegedly talking to his sister on the phone. Y'know, the phone that looked like a gun. From a distance.

There was no reasonable assumption of threat here. The kid was black, and that's it.

____________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#41 Mar 21 2012 at 5:13 PM Rating: Excellent
Gurue
*****
16,299 posts
If everyone in this thread was arguing that Martin deserved it, gbaji would be arguing that Zimmerman was a racist. It doesn't matter what anyone here says, gbaji's going to argue in the other direction. It's been this way ever since he came off his meds, or got dropped on the head, or whatever it was that's changed him so much.
#42 Mar 21 2012 at 5:14 PM Rating: Good
Drunken English Bastard
*****
15,268 posts
How old was this kid? He looks about 16 or so. Never mind he's 17

This Zimmerman guy is what? Twice his age and weight? There's no way he was threatened here. Ridiculous.

Edited, Mar 21st 2012 7:15pm by Nilatai
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#43 Mar 21 2012 at 5:21 PM Rating: Excellent
Gurue
*****
16,299 posts
Maybe Martin's phone had one of those apps that makes it sound like a light saber. That would've been threatening, right?
#44 Mar 21 2012 at 5:27 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
34,982 posts
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
He's been following this kid for a good 2 minutes before he tells the dispatcher that the kid started to run away from him.


And? That's exactly what he's supposed to do. Or do you think that someone who's on a neighborhood watch patrol, upon seeing someone he believes is suspicious, should call the police and then drive off and hope everything works out ok? He kept an eye on Martin until the police could arrive. But before they did so, Martin bolted and ran. Obviously, we can question Zimmerman's choice to chase him, but nothing up to that point was wrong.

Quote:
And go ahead and listen at 2:21 for when you get to hear his nice racial slur. It's not hard to make out, at all.


I can't listen to audio tapes right at the moment, but I've read the transcripts and I've read reports from two different news outlets who've had audio experts listen to the tape. One said that they could not determine the word, the other said that it was "punks". The only reason you think it's a racist slur is because you've read dozens of posts and statements that he said "coons". So that's what you hear when you listen to the tape.

Strip away the assumptions other people are saying and just look at the facts. I know that this is hard for most people to do, but if you do this you'll realize that there isn't anything to indicate racism as a motivation.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#45 Mar 21 2012 at 5:33 PM Rating: Good
******
20,020 posts
It's INCREDIBLY clear that he said "f***ing ****". There isn't any static or anything clouding it out, it's not even muttered. It's a joke to think he said something else.

Quote:
And? That's exactly what he's supposed to do.


No. It isn't. At all. He was told not to by the dispatcher he was on the phone with, and it's against procedure for neighborhood watches in general. You report--that's when your job ends. They are incredibly strict about this--you do not put yourself or anyone else in danger; you are not vigilantes. It's an early warning system, not a civilian police force.
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#46 Mar 21 2012 at 5:34 PM Rating: Excellent
Drunken English Bastard
*****
15,268 posts
gbaji wrote:
And? That's exactly what he's supposed to do. Or do you think that someone who's on a neighborhood watch patrol, upon seeing someone he believes is suspicious, should call the police and then drive off and hope everything works out ok?

That's what you're supposed to do. It's what they're for.
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#47 Mar 21 2012 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
******
27,272 posts
gbaji wrote:
Strip away the assumptions other people are saying and just look at the facts. I know that this is hard for most people to do, but if you do this you'll realize that there isn't anything to indicate racism as a motivation.
I agree in so far that I don't think there's enough proof to go shouting racism, however it does sound much more like murder than like self defense and at the very least it's suspicious and there's a need for a thorough investigation.
____________________________
Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#48 Mar 21 2012 at 5:43 PM Rating: Good
******
49,824 posts
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
You report--that's when your job ends. They are incredibly strict about this--you do not put yourself or anyone else in danger; you are not vigilantes. It's an early warning system, not a civilian police force.
Actually you're fully entitled to performed a citizen's arrest, which would be where you detain an individual until the proper authorities arrive should you catch someone in the midst of a crime and escape is highly likely. Though it doesn't entitle one to shoot someone, should there be a scuffle and the individual attempting a CA feels his life is in danger, then (depending on the state) deadly force is allowed.

Note that I'm not talking about the case with Zimmerman, just saying that "report and hope for the best" isn't exactly correct when it comes to civilian organizations like neighborhood watch and such.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#49 Mar 21 2012 at 5:44 PM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
******
29,244 posts
You're really not in danger from someone who's running away. On the recording, Zimmerman was more worried that the kid was going to "escape".

"Are you following him now, sir?"
"Yeah."
"We don't need you to do that, okay?"
____________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#50 Mar 21 2012 at 5:57 PM Rating: Good
Drunken English Bastard
*****
15,268 posts
WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE GETTING SIDETRACKED BY GBAJI'S RACISM BULLSHIT?

This kid was killed, regardless of if the guy was racist or not, he still murdered a child.

He needs to be put away for a long time.
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#51 Mar 21 2012 at 6:07 PM Rating: Good
******
20,020 posts
Quote:
"report and hope for the best" isn't exactly correct when it comes to civilian organizations like neighborhood watch and such.


Being allowed by law, and being what he should do are two different things. From the USA on Watch website (and here's a link to the NW page, specifically):

Quote:
Q: What is the difference between Citizens Patrol and Neighborhood Watch?
A: Citizens Patrol is mainly groups of volunteers who donate their time to work with law enforcement departments. In some cases, Citizens Patrol is directly started and funded by law enforcement agency for the specific purpose of assisting that agency with basic functions such as providing administrative help or assisting with patrolling areas with nonviolent crimes.Neighborhood Watch is a crime prevention program that stresses education and common sense. It teaches citizens how to help themselves by identifying and reporting suspicious activity in their neighborhoods to local law enforcement. . Neighborhood Watch Groups are more than the eyes and ears for police. The defining difference between Neighborhood Watch and Citizen Patrol is their evolvement with law enforcement. While both assist law enforcement their roles are different. Neighborhood Watch reports suspicious activity in their neighborhood to law enforcement. Citizen Patrol works closely with law enforcement to assist their efforts.


One of the key purposes of watches isn't to actually catch convicts, but to deter them from entering the neighborhood in the first place. Beyond that, the goal is to get police to the scene before a crime can actually be committed. The hope is that, in time, the communities will be considered risky propositions for criminals, and therefore avoided.

Edited, Mar 21st 2012 8:08pm by idiggory
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 1 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (1)