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#1 Dec 19 2013 at 7:34 PM Rating: Default
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Me: While I don't believe an entry level crew member should be earning $15 an hour, I have a problem with corporations intentionally paying less while promoting their employees to be subsidized by the government.

Coworker: Government is the enabler that enables employers to pay less. Remove the government assistance and the employers would pay more

Me: (assuming that he was pro-gun) Employers will continue to pay less because the problem isn't the tool, but the people. People are the problem. Just like with "guns don't kill people, people kill people", the tool isn't the problem.

Coworker: Government assistance is the gun and it should be taken away

Me: Are you suggesting that we take away guns?

Coworker: mind explodes.

Obviously, that is flawed and could easily be reversed (which I had a response in case that he did), but I thought it was pretty funny that he walked right into that with no clue how to get out. I'm just tons of fun to work with!Smiley: lol

Anyone else bring forum discussions to work? As a left leaning independent, I tend to argue my conservative views with liberals and my liberal views around conservatives.
#2 Dec 19 2013 at 7:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Not at work, but I've stolen a few quotes over the years.

Did just have a discussion with the wife about the whole chicken egg thing, she says she's happy to get anything that came out of a chicken washed prior to her touching it, even if that means refrigeration is needed.
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#3 Dec 19 2013 at 7:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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I feel deeply sorry for your coworkers if you argue with them in the same way you do here.
#4 Dec 19 2013 at 8:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
Me: (assuming that he was pro-gun) Employers will continue to pay less because the problem isn't the tool, but the people. People are the problem. Just like with "guns don't kill people, people kill people", the tool isn't the problem.

Coworker: Government assistance is the gun and it should be taken away


The odds that an actual person who existed anywhere other than in your own head would respond in this way to the statement before it is as close to zero as you can get. Really? Why would anyone say this? First off, your own statement is complete nonsense. That anyone would happen to respond to that nonsense with exactly the "wrong" nonsense answer seems incredibly unlikely.


The more likely response would be "Huh? What the hell are you talking about? That makes no sense."

Quote:
Obviously, that is flawed...


You think?

For the record though. Here's the correct conservative response (right after the whole "that makes no freaking sense at all" bit):


Corporations pay their workers what the labor market will bear. When government steps in and gets involved, it can affect that market. And in some cases, it affects the market negatively. Corporations don't take into account whether or not government assistance programs exist when deciding how much to pay people. People may take those factors into account when choosing to accept a job for a given wage, which may in turn cause wages to become lower in some industries where government benefits can/do pick up the slack, but that is not something the employer causes.

And yes, that can mean that in some industries wages would be higher if government assistance wasn't available, but again, that's not a choice of the employer, but a collective choice by the employees reacting to the presence or absence of government assistance. If there's no government assistance then everyone has to seek payment sufficient to pay for their own subsistence at a minimum. This will tend to drive up wages at the low end. It's only when some are willing to accept lower payment that it is driven down. And this can happen anytime someone is in the labor market who is not dependent on that wage for their livelihood (so supported to some degree by some method other than their own labor). This can be a minor entering the workforce, but still living under their parents roof, or it can be someone who's receiving government food and housing assistance.
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#5 Dec 19 2013 at 9:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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The odds that an actual person who existed anywhere other than in your own head would respond in this way to the statement before it is as close to zero as you can get. Really? Why would anyone say this?

This would be more plausible if people didn't read every single one of your posts and at some point think to themselves "Is this a joke? No one could be this fucking stupid in reality, could they?"
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#6 Dec 19 2013 at 10:12 PM Rating: Default
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
I feel deeply sorry for your coworkers if you argue with them in the same way you do here.


I'm more PC at work and depending on the environment, I try to give points on both side of the argument.

Gbaji wrote:
The odds that an actual person who existed anywhere other than in your own head would respond in this way to the statement before it is as close to zero as you can get. Really? Why would anyone say this? First off, your own statement is complete nonsense. That anyone would happen to respond to that nonsense with exactly the "wrong" nonsense answer seems incredibly unlikely.


The more likely response would be "Huh? What the hell are you talking about? That makes no sense."


You can't accuse people of the same "nonsense" that you claim doesn't exist.

Gbaji wrote:
Corporations pay their workers what the labor market will bear. When government steps in and gets involved, it can affect that market. And in some cases, it affects the market negatively. Corporations don't take into account whether or not government assistance programs exist when deciding how much to pay people.


Yes, it can affect the market. More people start buying more stuff which equates to more business.

Gbaji wrote:
People may take those factors into account when choosing to accept a job for a given wage, which may in turn cause wages to become lower in some industries where government benefits can/do pick up the slack, but that is not something the employer causes.


So you are saying that people turn down BETTER paying jobs for worse because the government will provide subsidies? "I don't want to make a lot of money, I want to earn less and receive subsidies from the government to barely get by!"

Gbaji wrote:
And yes, that can mean that in some industries wages would be higher if government assistance wasn't available, but again, that's not a choice of the employer, but a collective choice by the employees reacting to the presence or absence of government assistance. If there's no government assistance then everyone has to seek payment sufficient to pay for their own subsistence at a minimum. This will tend to drive up wages at the low end. It's only when some are willing to accept lower payment that it is driven down. And this can happen anytime someone is in the labor market who is not dependent on that wage for their livelihood (so supported to some degree by some method other than their own labor). This can be a minor entering the workforce, but still living under their parents roof, or it can be someone who's receiving government food and housing assistance.


Complete and utter BS. Employers will ALWAYS pay what they can get away with, regardless if there is a minimum wage or not. If there were no minimum wages, those people working at McDonalds would be paid less than what they are now.
#7 Dec 20 2013 at 10:11 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
And yes, that can mean that in some industries wages would be higher if government assistance wasn't available
Can you provide a few examples? And I really do mean a few, at the least. Not just 1. I can't think of a single one, but won't rule out that there isn't at least one. Finding it hard to beleive there are multiple though.
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#8 Dec 20 2013 at 10:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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I can't say I listened to Gbaji but I used to at least scan his little economic screeds. Then he said that penny-paid child silver miners were good capitalism because they raised the wages of adult silver miners or else all the miners would just go to the mine next door. At that point I realized I was completely wasting my time.
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#9 Dec 20 2013 at 10:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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And yes, that can mean that in some industries wages would be higher if government assistance wasn't available, but again, that's not a choice of the employer, but a collective choice by the employees reacting to the presence or absence of government assistance. If there's no government assistance then everyone has to seek payment sufficient to pay for their own subsistence at a minimum. This will tend to drive up wages at the low end.

Nah, don't be silly. In a free market poor people work for almost nothing or they die. Hence the complete lack of actual free market capitalism as an economic system anywhere on the globe. It doesn't work, because occasionally rather than die, people rise up. The key is to keep the lower classes just happy enough not to revolt. Pacified, if you will.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#10 Dec 20 2013 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I can't say I listened to Gbaji but I used to at least scan his little economic screeds. Then he said that penny-paid child silver miners were good capitalism because they raised the wages of adult silver miners or else all the miners would just go to the mine next door. At that point I realized I was completely wasting my time.
Smiley: lol THAT was what made you realize you were wasting your time? I thought the realization would have come long before that snippet.
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#11 Dec 20 2013 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bread and circuses, that's the ticket.
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#12 Dec 20 2013 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, wasting my time even scanning. Obviously I wasn't impressed with the source material prior to that.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#13 Dec 20 2013 at 10:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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The gay marriage threads killed it for me. I engaged him up to that point.

It's also boring to respond when you already know what his response will be.

Edited, Dec 20th 2013 10:24am by Xsarus
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#14 Dec 20 2013 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good
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This would be more plausible if people didn't read every single one of your posts and at some point think to themselves "Is this a joke? No one could be this ******* stupid in reality, could they?"


Personally, it's not so much the degree of stupidity but more the scale of it. I've seen people make blithe, stupid remarks before, and I've seen them spend hours trying to justify themselves when someone challenges what they said. It's the punch-clock monotony, the industrial scale of gbaji's sheer ******* drivel that astounds me. Day in, day out. Where does he get the energy for it?
#15 Dec 20 2013 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
It's also boring to respond when you already know what his response will be.

The chair didn't respond, but you kept going!
#16 Dec 20 2013 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
I avoid talking politics at work because 90% of the people here in the office are of the refined redneck variety and things would not go well.

We stick to safe topics, like vacation plans and swapping cooking recipes. Even vacation plans can get political, though. My closest "office friend" said she didn't want to go to Washington DC for vacation while Obama was in office.

I just kind of shrugged it off at the time, but I feel sorry for her because she's an intelligent young woman and somewhere along the line she got Obama Derangement Syndrome. Smiley: disappointed
#17 Dec 20 2013 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
My closest "office friend" said she didn't want to go to Washington DC for vacation while Obama was in office.
What, she thinks she's gonna accidently run into him at the Smithsonian?
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#18 Dec 20 2013 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
My closest "office friend" said she didn't want to go to Washington DC for vacation while Obama was in office.
What, she thinks she's gonna accidently run into him at the Smithsonian?

Who knows? It's not called Obama Derangement Syndrome because anything that comes out of it is logical.
#19 Dec 20 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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I avoid talking politics at work because 90% of the people here in the office are of the refined redneck variety and things would not go well.

I avoid it because it's not what people pay me to do. I also wear suits, smile at people I hate, pitch ideas to executives in a manner that allows them to feel as if they originated them, and compliment borderline incompetent in house "resources" because, again, these are all things people exchange money with me to do, even though they may not be articulated in a contract. I should say, did, I guess. Now I wear cargo pants and tee shirts and wipe **** off another human for free.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#20 Dec 20 2013 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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We could all stand to talk less and clean more baby bums.


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#21 Dec 20 2013 at 1:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Cleaning less baby bums would be appreciated too.
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#22 Dec 20 2013 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Catwho wrote:
My closest "office friend" said she didn't want to go to Washington DC for vacation while Obama was in office.
What, she thinks she's gonna accidently run into him at the Smithsonian?

Who knows? It's not called Obama Derangement Syndrome because anything that comes out of it is logical.
She's probably just afraid she won't be invited to the ******** parties Obama throws every week at the white house.
#23 Dec 20 2013 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Cleaning less baby bums would be appreciated too.

I just came from office holiday lunch. I met two new babies. Smiley: smile



Edited, Dec 20th 2013 8:11pm by Elinda
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#24 Dec 20 2013 at 1:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Cleaning less baby bums would be appreciated too.

I just came from office holiday lunch. I met two new babies. Smiley: smile
Other people's babies are awesome. They cry and scream on the tram or bus and I smile polietly and understandingly at their mom who's apologizing profusely. I say it's okay, and I and have two of my own; then find myself in a surprisingly good mood as for once the screaming/stinky thingy isn't my problem. Smiley: lol
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#25 Dec 20 2013 at 1:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
I avoid talking politics at work because 90% of the people here in the office are of the refined redneck variety and things would not go well.

I avoid it because it's not what people pay me to do. I also wear suits, smile at people I hate, pitch ideas to executives in a manner that allows them to feel as if they originated them, and compliment borderline incompetent in house "resources" because, again, these are all things people exchange money with me to do, even though they may not be articulated in a contract. I should say, did, I guess. Now I wear cargo pants and tee shirts and wipe sh*t off another human for free.

I've actually found a competent in house team. That project went so fast, I'm not entirely convinced it wasn't just a dream.

This is balanced by a recent team that was convinced that since two of them were twins, everyone was a twin.

Edited, Dec 20th 2013 1:43pm by Xsarus
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#26 Dec 20 2013 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
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I've actually found a competent in house team.

Oh I've found them, they're just never available as resources, it's always Jim the Libertarian Mustache Guy who's a "Senior Systems Analyst", only works in Logo and Pascal, and avoids doing anything awaiting "clarification" of non issues. Sorry, I digress.

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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

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