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My mechanic said and Obama agrees that..Follow

#1 Feb 18 2014 at 6:39 PM Rating: Default
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FCC should make ISPs common carreiers ( as they were just a moment ago ).

I am not sure if it is because Obama can't actually do much that he actually sided with $not_business, but I will take it anyway.

Can I get a small woop woop?
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#2 Feb 18 2014 at 6:40 PM Rating: Good
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No, you can't.
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#3 Feb 18 2014 at 6:42 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
No, you can't.


Do you really want to see a grown man cry?
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#4 Feb 18 2014 at 6:55 PM Rating: Good
angrymnk wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
No, you can't.


Do you really want to see a grown man cry?


Yes, please.
#5 Feb 18 2014 at 7:02 PM Rating: Default
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
No, you can't.


Do you really want to see a grown man cry?


Yes, please.


Yall so mean yo. I can't take this anymore.

*wrist*
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#6 Feb 19 2014 at 3:57 PM Rating: Default
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It's as dumb an idea in this thread as it was in the other thread. Changing the words used doesn't change the fact that trying to define ISPs as public utilities in order to get around the whole "not a common carrier" parts of the rulings against NN is like swatting a fly with a baseball bat. It's the wrong solution to a problem that isn't really a problem in the first place.
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#7 Feb 19 2014 at 4:16 PM Rating: Excellent
The ISPs themselves don't want to be classed as common carriers because they'll have to divest their content production divisions if they do.
#8 Feb 19 2014 at 5:54 PM Rating: Default
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Catwho wrote:
The ISPs themselves don't want to be classed as common carriers because they'll have to divest their content production divisions if they do.


I doubt that's really it. I'd be shocked if they aren't separate corporate entities already, for more or less the exact legal reason of elimination of conflict of interest issues. Companies do this all the time (or are required to do so by some legal action) and they don't have to be named common carriers for this to happen. Simple anti trust rules already do this.

I really do think that the whole net neutrality thing is more of a bait and switch deal. It's claimed to be needed to address some kind of unfair competition practices, but as I stated, existing anti-trust laws already do that. The real reason (IMHO) is that some people just want more government regulation on industries. Sounds silly, but there it is. The folks in government derive their ***** sizes based on how large a domain of things their department controls, and there's a segment of the population that has some kind of security blanket thing with increased government control. They just are scared of the "free market", and thus imagine all sorts of terrible things that it could do, and no amount of showing them that it's not happening will talk them down from this belief.

Honestly, when I look at the proposals for net neutrality, my usual response is "why do people think this is needed?". And when I look at the near hysteria engaged in by proponents, I kinda can't help by conclude that it's not, but that if you scare enough people about something, they'll just blindly allow you to do whatever the hell you want. There is zero need for what they are proposing. Zip. Zero. Nada. The only thing it accomplishes is to impose unnecessary regulation on an industry that has an amazing track record of massively positive outcomes in the absence of oppressive government regulation.

I don't think the goal of those pursuing net neutrality is really to damage the internet, or reduce its usefulness and "free" nature. I just honestly believe that most people don't know better and are being talked into supporting something that will ultimately hurt them in the long run. It's like rallying grade school kids to support a cause in opposition to doing homework or taking those high stress tests. That might sound great to the kids in school, but they aren't really better off if they win that one, are they? I kinda see this the same way.

Edited, Feb 19th 2014 3:54pm by gbaji
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#9 Feb 19 2014 at 9:04 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Catwho wrote:
The ISPs themselves don't want to be classed as common carriers because they'll have to divest their content production divisions if they do.


I doubt that's really it. I'd be shocked if they aren't separate corporate entities already, for more or less the exact legal reason of elimination of conflict of interest issues. Companies do this all the time (or are required to do so by some legal action) and they don't have to be named common carriers for this to happen. Simple anti trust rules already do this.

I really do think that the whole net neutrality thing is more of a bait and switch deal. It's claimed to be needed to address some kind of unfair competition practices, but as I stated, existing anti-trust laws already do that. The real reason (IMHO) is that some people just want more government regulation on industries. Sounds silly, but there it is. The folks in government derive their ***** sizes based on how large a domain of things their department controls, and there's a segment of the population that has some kind of security blanket thing with increased government control. They just are scared of the "free market", and thus imagine all sorts of terrible things that it could do, and no amount of showing them that it's not happening will talk them down from this belief.

Honestly, when I look at the proposals for net neutrality, my usual response is "why do people think this is needed?". And when I look at the near hysteria engaged in by proponents, I kinda can't help by conclude that it's not, but that if you scare enough people about something, they'll just blindly allow you to do whatever the hell you want. There is zero need for what they are proposing. Zip. Zero. Nada. The only thing it accomplishes is to impose unnecessary regulation on an industry that has an amazing track record of massively positive outcomes in the absence of oppressive government regulation.

I don't think the goal of those pursuing net neutrality is really to damage the internet, or reduce its usefulness and "free" nature. I just honestly believe that most people don't know better and are being talked into supporting something that will ultimately hurt them in the long run. It's like rallying grade school kids to support a cause in opposition to doing homework or taking those high stress tests. That might sound great to the kids in school, but they aren't really better off if they win that one, are they? I kinda see this the same way.

Edited, Feb 19th 2014 3:54pm by gbaji


Sure it is not needed. It is not like Cumcast blocked, throttled bittorrent and then lied about doing so.

Let us all pretend companies act in our own best interest. Hell, let us all just join hands together and sing kumbaya. You are as bad as the guy on the radio today that there is zero, zilch, nada proof of Putin killing his (political and otherwise) enemies.

Edited, Feb 19th 2014 10:04pm by angrymnk
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#10 Feb 19 2014 at 10:24 PM Rating: Default
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They do act in our interests. I'm not going to argue that Comcast's PR on this was great, but the fact is I have no problem with them throttling bittorrents. The alternative is massively increasing the amount they have to charge all their customers. I really think you don't get that. By keeping bandwidth hogs from consuming all the bandwidth on their network, they allow the rest of our internet use to work faster with the same amount of hardware. If they didn't do this, you'd either have crap slow performance or you'd have to pay like twice what you do for your internet.

There's no free lunch here. The problem with large scale peer to peer hosting (like bittorrent) is that it causes a large volume of traffic from/to sources that aren't normally revenue sources. As I mentioned in the other thread, there are semi-complex agreements by all parties involved at all layers of the internet to manage traffic and ensure that it's paid for by those using it most. So big hosting services charge lots of money for their clients to provide their services. This money is then distributed to adjacent network owners. There's a vast amount of traffic tracking that goes on to determine who pays who, but it all requires that most traffic originate from some business with an agreement for hosting content with one of the players in the game.


The home user gets a nearly free ride in all of this normally. The cost of a basic connection gives them access to a huge network, 99.99999999% of which neither they, nor any other home user, paid for. Again, that's not really free. It requires all sorts of hosting costs and traffic fees between the big players. But peer to peer breaks this model. I suppose the alternative is to just throttle everyone, or go back to the old days with total bandwidth limits. That would shut down bittorrent in a hurry. They're trying to come up with the least harmful and expensive way to resolve this. Crying and acting like a spoiled kid isn't particularly helpful

Edited, Feb 19th 2014 8:25pm by gbaji
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#11 Feb 19 2014 at 10:44 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
They do act in our interests. I'm not going to argue that Comcast's PR on this was great, but the fact is I have no problem with them throttling bittorrents. The alternative is massively increasing the amount they have to charge all their customers. I really think you don't get that. By keeping bandwidth hogs from consuming all the bandwidth on their network, they allow the rest of our internet use to work faster with the same amount of hardware. If they didn't do this, you'd either have crap slow performance or you'd have to pay like twice what you do for your internet.

There's no free lunch here. The problem with large scale peer to peer hosting (like bittorrent) is that it causes a large volume of traffic from/to sources that aren't normally revenue sources. As I mentioned in the other thread, there are semi-complex agreements by all parties involved at all layers of the internet to manage traffic and ensure that it's paid for by those using it most. So big hosting services charge lots of money for their clients to provide their services. This money is then distributed to adjacent network owners. There's a vast amount of traffic tracking that goes on to determine who pays who, but it all requires that most traffic originate from some business with an agreement for hosting content with one of the players in the game.


The home user gets a nearly free ride in all of this normally. The cost of a basic connection gives them access to a huge network, 99.99999999% of which neither they, nor any other home user, paid for. Again, that's not really free. It requires all sorts of hosting costs and traffic fees between the big players. But peer to peer breaks this model. I suppose the alternative is to just throttle everyone, or go back to the old days with total bandwidth limits. That would shut down bittorrent in a hurry. They're trying to come up with the least harmful and expensive way to resolve this. Crying and acting like a spoiled kid isn't particularly helpful

Edited, Feb 19th 2014 8:25pm by gbaji


Listen you, (google edit ) person of limited brain capacity, anything is *potentially* a bandwidth hog. The only relevant factor is: THE USER ALREADY PAID FOR IT REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT IS BEING USED FOR. If the comcast does not like it being used for something, then it shouldn't have all those pretty commercials that say *high quality video, online games, music and everything interwebz you can possibly want and or need at speeds $provably_wrong_number.

It is not up to comcast, it is up to the user. That is what the common carrier piece is about.

And no it wouldn't shut the internet down; just like with other utilities, people would adjust their habits accordingly and not, for example, waste water.
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#12 Feb 19 2014 at 11:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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True that. Comcast says I have 300 gb a month before they throttle or charge me more or whatever*. If I want to use those 300 gb all in one hour by downloading the entire Girls Gone Wild catalog then that's a dumb decision on my part and the rest of my month will suck but there's zero excuse for Comcast to pre-emptively throttle me during my 300 gb period just because they detect that I'm using Bittorrent.


*In reality, they don't enforce this except in a few select areas but that's on them, not me.

Edited, Feb 19th 2014 11:04pm by Jophiel
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#13 Feb 19 2014 at 11:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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You could just download a 20mb clip and play it on repeat for a few hours and get the same effect.
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#14 Feb 19 2014 at 11:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#15 Feb 20 2014 at 7:11 AM Rating: Good
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I'm gonna have to get my car serviced so I can get me some of this mechanically advice.

For the most part though he's of the mind that I pay for and receive the agreed upon services.
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#16 Feb 20 2014 at 10:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
If I want to use those 300 gb all in one hour by downloading the entire Girls Gone Wild catalog then that's a dumb decision on my part and the rest of my month will suck
I want your download speeds.
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#17 Feb 20 2014 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
If I want to use those 300 gb all in one hour by downloading the entire Girls Gone Wild catalog then that's a dumb decision on my part and the rest of my month will suck
I want your download speeds.

I want to know why it would be a dumb decision.

lolgaxe wrote:
You could just download a 20mb clip and play it on repeat for a few hoursseconds and get the same effect.

O.K., maybe this is why.
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#18 Feb 20 2014 at 2:17 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
You could just download a 20mb clip and play it on repeat for a few hours and get the same effect.


You could just download a gif and get the same effect while saving even more bandwidth. Smiley: schooled
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#19 Feb 20 2014 at 3:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
You could just download a 20mb clip and play it on repeat for a few hours and get the same effect.


You could just download a gif find a girlfriend and get the same effect while saving even more bandwidth. Smiley: schooled
Parents' basement, something, something...

Edited, Feb 20th 2014 1:01pm by someproteinguy
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#20 Feb 20 2014 at 3:06 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
You could just download a 20mb clip and play it on repeat for a few hours and get the same effect.


You could just download a gif find a girlfriend and get the same effect while saving even more bandwidth. Smiley: schooled
Parents' basement, something, something...

Edited, Feb 20th 2014 1:01pm by someproteinguy


Problem is it's a crawlspace not a basement. No normal girl wants to be on their back or stomach the first time they're in there. Smiley: bah
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#21 Feb 20 2014 at 3:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smiley: disappointed

Normal girls are boring anyway; need to find some freaky gamer chick. Smiley: nod
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#22 Feb 20 2014 at 3:35 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Smiley: disappointed

Normal girls are boring anyway; need to find some freaky gamer chick. Smiley: nod


How will I get them out of their basement?
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"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
— James D. Nicoll
#23 Feb 20 2014 at 3:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Smiley: disappointed

Normal girls are boring anyway; need to find some freaky gamer chick. Smiley: nod


How will I get them out of their basement?
Kids these days... Smiley: oyvey

You can go with duct tape and chloroform, maybe a catapult or some kind of pulley system if you're not into heavy lifting. Best case they've been down there so long it'll be easy to get the parents to give you a hand; worst case you just move in to her place and tell your parents to send you money and hot pockets in the mail.
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#24 Feb 20 2014 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Smiley: disappointed

Normal girls are boring anyway; need to find some freaky gamer chick. Smiley: nod


How will I get them out of their basement?
Kids these days... Smiley: oyvey

You can go with duct tape and chloroform, maybe a catapult or some kind of pulley system if you're not into heavy lifting. Best case they've been down there so long it'll be easy to get the parents to give you a hand; worst case you just move in to her place and tell your parents to send you money and hot pockets in the mail.


You've truly earned that Guru title, unlike that Jophiel who just wastes his bandwidth. Smiley: nod
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"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
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#25 Feb 20 2014 at 3:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Smiley: disappointed

Normal girls are boring anyway; need to find some freaky gamer chick. Smiley: nod


How will I get them out of their basement?
Kids these days... Smiley: oyvey

You can go with duct tape and chloroform, maybe a catapult or some kind of pulley system if you're not into heavy lifting. Best case they've been down there so long it'll be easy to get the parents to give you a hand; worst case you just move in to her place and tell your parents to send you money and hot pockets in the mail.


You've truly earned that Guru title, unlike that Jophiel who just wastes his bandwidth. Smiley: nod
Anything for a fellow gamer. Smiley: thumbsup

Best of luck with your new love, be sure to post pics. Smiley: wink
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#26 Feb 20 2014 at 3:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Preferably blurry pics.

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