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#1 Jan 07 2015 at 5:33 PM Rating: Good
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#2 Jan 07 2015 at 5:44 PM Rating: Good
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I thought your name was Demea. Smiley: confused

Yes, I know what it's about. Does France have the death penalty? Just curious what sort of punishment will happen once the three guys are caught, probably sometime tomorrow.
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#3 Jan 07 2015 at 6:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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#4 Jan 08 2015 at 6:54 AM Rating: Good
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If America had nuked France instead of renaming french fries freedom fries, this wouldn't have happened.
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#5 Jan 08 2015 at 7:36 AM Rating: Good
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Supposedly the Editor of the Financial Times said Charlie Hebdo's continued Muslim baiting was 'stupid'.

In hindsight maybe he was right.

Is it 'baiting'?

Was it 'stupid'?

Is there a line somewhere that decent humans, even editorial cartoonists should try and not cross, or is it important, perhaps even necessary to the ultimate goal of a peaceful humanity, to not only be able to safely express offending views, but to actually attempt to offend a group of peoples in an effort to create some degree of change....media shaming I suppose?

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#6 Jan 08 2015 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Was it 'stupid'?
Badger poking generally is.
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#7 Jan 08 2015 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
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But, what if you're trying to get the badger out of it's hole.
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#8 Jan 08 2015 at 8:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Supposedly the Editor of the Financial Times said Charlie Hebdo's continued Muslim baiting was 'stupid'.

He's right. Not stupid enough to be murdered over, obviously, but they didn't pick this name out of a hat.

Edited, Jan 8th 2015 9:48am by Smasharoo
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#9 Jan 08 2015 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
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Gas and tranq 'em.
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#10 Jan 08 2015 at 5:36 PM Rating: Decent
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What I do not get that Canada has more balls to print the picture than UK. Oh yeah, and US is being whiny about saying religion is cool, but fanatics are not.

How hard is it to see that religion happens to be, at least, a likely proximate cause?
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#11 Jan 08 2015 at 8:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm generally of the opinion that you can both uphold the right to free speech while also condemning stupid exercises of said right, but the FT article you're referring to specifically was ludicrous (before they "revised" it to remove the especially offensive parts).
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#12 Jan 08 2015 at 9:59 PM Rating: Good
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How hard is it to see that religion happens to be, at least, a likely proximate cause?

It's not hard, it confuses the issue. If you could wave a wand and eliminate Islam tomorrow, you would have done very little to eliminate this sort of violence. Islam mainly acts as the cover pretext and unifying mythos. In it's absence nationalism, tribal identity, racism or whatever would rush in to fill the vacuum. People are by and large willing to kill other people given the shallowest pretext of them being "the other". What that pretext is sort of misses the point.

As you may or may not realize, I'm not a fan of religion, generally. Blaming it for this sort of thing is foolish, however.

Edited, Jan 8th 2015 10:59pm by Smasharoo
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#13 Jan 08 2015 at 10:43 PM Rating: Good
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Plus, it's much easier to blame Obama: https://twitter.com/oreillyfactor/status/553328297875341315.
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#14 Jan 08 2015 at 10:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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#15 Jan 09 2015 at 6:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
How hard is it to see that religion happens to be, at least, a likely proximate cause?

It's not hard, it confuses the issue. If you could wave a wand and eliminate Islam tomorrow, you would have done very little to eliminate this sort of violence. Islam mainly acts as the cover pretext and unifying mythos. In it's absence nationalism, tribal identity, racism or whatever would rush in to fill the vacuum. People are by and large willing to kill other people given the shallowest pretext of them being "the other". What that pretext is sort of misses the point.

As you may or may not realize, I'm not a fan of religion, generally. Blaming it for this sort of thing is foolish, however.

Edited, Jan 8th 2015 10:59pm by Smasharoo


Interesting point, I definitely disagree about about religion being blameless here. I doubt removing religion, not just Islam - all religion, from our society would not have far reaching consequences. I am not insane enough to state it would eliminate violence, because, as you already stated it is about a question of a much more deeper conflict ( us vs them ), but saying that any other -ism would just fill the void ( because people are basically retards ) is about as defeatist as it gets. What I am saying that you are arguing for the status quo.

I would argue that US today is about as nationalist ( and briefly after 9/11, oh boy ) and religious ( slowly chipping away Roe vs Wade ) as you can get in the first world country. The unifying mythos is a little different ( exceptionalism being the favorite one ), but the tribal aspect is very much still factor here. Yet.. all we get is a massacre by regular crazies here and there.. we just don't seem to get many massacres that start with "my god is bigger than your god" as the underlying reason.

I listened to a radio show yesterday where a person with mild nationalist and religious bent ( they seem to go hand in hand ) say that she is not Charlie, because while she does not like the violence, she didn't like the message that particular "satirical"(her quotation marks), offensive, anti-religious text published and, well, they were really asking for it. I am sorry. I do not believe in hornet's nest argument.

Fundies are not bees. Or hornets. They are human. If they can't function in this society, maybe we should have a discussion about why that is.

I will paraphrase House:

What asses get to keep being asses and which ones we get to kill...

I am saying all this, because pollacks get routinely shat upon and yet we don't blow **** up and kill people over it. We call the editors, send letters and ***** about it in a slightly more civilized way.


Edited, Jan 9th 2015 8:03am by angrymnk

Edited, Jan 9th 2015 8:09am by angrymnk
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#16 Jan 09 2015 at 7:05 AM Rating: Good
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This is fitting.
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#17 Jan 09 2015 at 7:12 AM Rating: Good
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No it ******* is not. South Park is not an answer to everything. It is not the ******* bible of the current generation, nor is it the voice of reason. It is just a simple show with crude, albeit funny, jokes that rides over the tides of controversy ( which is fine, clearly it works well ).

The reason I am saying this. South Park is not a fitting addition to this conversation. It is a distraction. Stay focused god damn it.

Cryst!

edit: added god to see if it is asterisked away



Edited, Jan 9th 2015 8:14am by angrymnk
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#18 Jan 09 2015 at 7:16 AM Rating: Good
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Wow. Someone's ****** today.

Those two episodes fit the conversation perfectly. Just because they happen to be in disagreement with your, "religion is the root of all evil" position doesn't change that.
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#19 Jan 09 2015 at 7:21 AM Rating: Good
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You've come to the wrong place if you aren't prepared to accept derails and side tangents.

Also, Smash is right, you're wrong. People are cnuts and will find any ralling point. Religion is just convenient. And the reason the US doesn't have these massacres is because of a strong police and military force. You have a hard time building up the required weapons/resources when the government can sweep in and confiscate the items.
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#20 Jan 09 2015 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
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Interesting point, I definitely disagree about about religion being blameless here. I doubt removing religion, not just Islam - all religion, from our society would not have far reaching consequences. I am not insane enough to state it would eliminate violence, because, as you already stated it is about a question of a much more deeper conflict ( us vs them ), but saying that any other -ism would just fill the void ( because people are basically retards ) is about as defeatist as it gets. What I am saying that you are arguing for the status quo.


Not retards, just humans. People aren't rational actors, pretending they are and offering solutions that would work for rational actors is pointless and ineffective. You can't educate people into rationality. Nexa and I, with easily 350 IQ points between us, argue for a week over who does more laundry. Do you think we don't understand how rationally useless that is? Do you think it's a lack of education? Humans are driven by brain chemistry that is entirely out of our control in most cases.

We want an ideology to make sense of an inherently meaningless existence. Religion provides that for people. Yes, it's make believe, but so is almost everything else. Ghandi fucked little girls and Jefferson took breaks from writing the Deceleration of Independence to rape his teenage slave. Noam Chomsky kills homeless guys for fun. Probably. Blaming religion for this is like blaming trench coats for Columbine.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#21 Jan 09 2015 at 7:31 AM Rating: Good
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Atm, the suspected gunmen are held up in some warehouse in Paris. Presumably they have a hostage. Also, there's something going on with another hostage situation. Not sure what's up with that.

Reportedly, many of the big new orgs. have made the deliberate decision not to publish any of the Charlie Hebdo satirical cartoon pictures that so angered these extremists. Granted most of the mainstream news services don't typically try and offend people. I wonder if, in light of recent events publications like Mad or Natl Lampoon would print goofy pictures of Mohammad.







Edited, Jan 9th 2015 2:33pm by Elinda
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#22 Jan 09 2015 at 7:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Nexa and I, with easily 350 IQ points between us


Nexa has an IQ of 200 250 300?
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#23 Jan 09 2015 at 7:51 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Atm, the suspected gunmen are held up in some warehouse in Paris. Presumably they have a hostage. Also, there's something going on with another hostage situation. Not sure what's up with that.
I heard on the radio something about a stand off, but there's a school nearby and they've agreed to do no shooting until the school's been evacuated and then they're going down, guns blazing to become martyrs.
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#24 Jan 09 2015 at 9:14 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Noam Chomsky kills homeless guys for fun.
Finally someone else taking up the slack.
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Probably.
Damnit.
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#25 Jan 09 2015 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
It's funny cos my dad has always loved Charlie Hebdo, and I always thought it was stupid, pointlessly controversialist and, more importantly, not very funny. I thought it had, at best, 2 years of publication left before it had to fold.

And now, because of these ******* terrorists, the whole knows about this magazine, its writers will be in the Pantheon, and it will go from 20,000 prints to a million. So, yeah, well done terrorists, you ******* geniuses...

On the upside, all the hostages are free, so yay.
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#26 Jan 09 2015 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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RedPhoenixxx wrote:
It's funny cos my dad has always loved Charlie Hebdo, and I always thought it was stupid, pointlessly controversialist and, more importantly, not very funny. I thought it had, at best, 2 years of publication left before it had to fold.

And now, because of these ******* terrorists, the whole knows about this magazine, its writers will be in the Pantheon, and it will go from 20,000 prints to a million. So, yeah, well done terrorists, you ******* geniuses...

On the upside, all the hostages are free, so yay.

Clearly there had been a war of words going one with the publication and Muslim extremists for a bit now. Has this magazine always been one of activism, albeit activism via satirical cartoons?
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