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#4352 Oct 31 2017 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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Well, were the people killing those slaves burning flags as their main form of protest? Or were they the same racist ******** that tried to wipe out the Native Americans?

Not sure what you guys are talking about, to be honest, it doesn't really seem to relate to what I was saying.
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#4353 Oct 31 2017 at 10:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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I mean, its probably safe to assume someone on the confederate side burned a U.S. flag or two over the course of the war. Given the whole shooting at the rest of us thing was happening back then. Does that count?

If not, at least we can have fun blaming a whole lot of people for something random.

Edited, Oct 31st 2017 9:42am by someproteinguy
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#4354 Oct 31 2017 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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We have holistic detectives and assassins, why not holistic conversations?

How is there Halloween movie marathons but none of them show Halloween 3? It's literally the only one about the holiday.
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#4355 Oct 31 2017 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
How is there Halloween movie marathons but none of them show Halloween 3? It's literally the only one about the holiday.
They could always show It's the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown on auto-repeat all day.
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#4356 Oct 31 2017 at 12:59 PM Rating: Good
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I'd marathon that, like Christmas and A Christmas Story.
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#4357 Oct 31 2017 at 5:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Ironically, I'm in agreement with your response, despite it being a misunderstanding of the original intent. Those on "the left" do kinda set this thing up. Every time you fight to defend someone's right to burn a flag, or depict Jesus guzzing someone else's man juice in an art show, or any other form of offensive speech (often intentionally offensive so as to get a reaction), you're also, for good or bad, defending someone else's right to wear a swastika armband, or wear a "god hates ****" t-shirt, or any other form of equally offensive speech (also, often designed to get a reaction).


False Equivalency. Burning a flag, or depicting a mythological religious figure blowing another guy don't promote violence, while ****'s and homophobes have a history of violence against other people.


The false equivalency is judging someone's speech based not on the speech itself, but based on past actions by others engaged in similar speech. It's a similar argument to what I've said in the past about the VBF. The fact that some people, at some points in the past, have used that flag to promote a racist agenda, doesn't mean that the person flying it right now, on the pole, has the same agenda, or that the flag means the same thing to him, or even that your interpretation is the most common one and should be used in preference to all others.

Um... That's not to say that the guy wearing the swastika armband isn't promoting a hateful, racist agenda, but you can't know if he wasn't say a street performer/artist, who decided to wear it just to generate a reaction to a powerful symbol. Such a person might be doing so for exactly the same reason one might create deliberately offensive art: To get a reaction.

At the end of the day, a guy wearing an armband isn't harming you at all. Just as a guy wearing any other message or symbol, or whatever, isn't. It's the actions that may harm you. If you want to oppose violent actions, that's great. Heck. If you want to oppose speech you believe may lead to violent actions, that's great as well. In the same way that you're free to oppose any speech you disagree with. But your opposition should also take the form of speech. When you oppose speech with violence, then you are the one in the wrong.
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#4361 Oct 31 2017 at 5:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Just ask yourself how many genocides were led by american people whose main form of protest was burning flags, and compare that to the number of genocides perpetrated by Nought-sies and Christians.


The same number of genocides lead by American people wearing swastika armbands. Zero.

Now, if we want to do something crazy like say compare the amount of violence actually perpetrated by folks wearing swastika armbands, in the US, in the last 25 years, to the amount of violence perpetrated by folks burning flags, in the US, in the last 25 years, you might have a better comparison. I don't think it's nearly the one sided value you might think. If we start including things like property value, the skew goes even further in the other direction. Heck. If we were to look just at Antifa versus Neo-**** violence, damage, vandalism, etc in the last few years, one of those groups is vastly more harmful, vastly more hateful, and vastly more violent than the other. I'll give you a hint: It ain't the neo-*****.

We want to move into infringing other's rights? Same deal. I'm not aware of a single event in the last several decades where a group of neo-***** showed up (to someone else's event) and started breaking stuff, and burning stuff, and attacking people, because they hated the people who were engaged in some kind of political/social speech. Can you?

Antifa regularly does this on college campuses to shut down conservative speech. Not "neo-****" speech. Just regular old main stream conservative speakers. BLM has showed up to numerous events, engaging in shouting down those attending. In some cases, going so far as to push their way onto someone else's stage, grabbing the microphone and hijacking the event for their own cause.

If we want to talk about offensive speech, IMO, that's far far more harmful than some idiot with an armband.

Again. It's not about the speech itself. It's about the actions taken. If you point me at an article where a group of neo-***** beat up a random *** guy walking down the street, or burned down a black church, or whatever, I'll join you in opposing their actions, and support the strongest legal action possible against them. And yes, if you point me at someone saying something directly hateful, and calling for violent actions, I'll oppose that speech too. But it would be kinda nice if you'd join me in opposing the actions of those who also engage in violence against others, but happen to do so in the name of causes that you might be more inclined to support.

It just seems strange to me to place more weight on a form of speech that is a mere wearing or flying of a symbol, than you do on speech that is directly threatening. So folks at a BLM march yelling for the killing of cops gets zero response, but one guy wearing an armband does? I'm sorry, I put more weight on the person actually saying "kill <some group of people>. That's pretty darn direct and unambiguous, isn't it?

I don't make a distinction between why someone engaged in violence.
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#4365 Nov 01 2017 at 7:22 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
I'm not aware of a single event in the last several decades where a group of neo-***** showed up (to someone else's event) and started breaking stuff, and burning stuff, and attacking people, because they hated the people who were engaged in some kind of political/social speech.
I'm aware of a Neo-Nazi in the last few years that showed up to someone else's event exercising their First Amendment and killed about ten people for no other reason than the color of their skin.

But I understand why you don't remember that. He as white, and you have very selective memory.
gbaji wrote:
It just seems strange to me to place more weight on a form of speech that is a mere wearing or flying of a symbol, than you do on speech that is directly threatening. So folks at a BLM march yelling for the killing of cops gets zero response, but one guy wearing an armband does?
I actually find it kind of strange that you're against people saying they want to kill people and not the person who is wearing a symbol that literally represent the indiscriminate murder of millions of people. But then I always find it weird when people defend Nazis.

Edited, Nov 1st 2017 9:26am by lolgaxe
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#4366 Nov 01 2017 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Just ask yourself how many genocides were led by american people whose main form of protest was burning flags, and compare that to the number of genocides perpetrated by Nought-sies and Christians.


The same number of genocides lead by American people wearing swastika armbands. Zero.


Reading comprehension fail?
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#4367 Nov 01 2017 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Professor Stupidmonkey the Great wrote:
Burning a flag, or depicting a mythological religious figure blowing another guy don't promote violence, while ****'s and homophobes have a history of violence against other people.


The false equivalency is judging someone's speech based not on the speech itself, but based on past actions by others engaged in similar speech.


Thank god that's not what I was doing. PROMOTING violence, versus not promoting violence. Care to give it another go, you MIGHT make it past the first sentence without looking like a paint chip eating mouth breather, I have my fingers crossed for you!

ETA Quote Fail on my part

Edited, Nov 1st 2017 9:29am by stupidmonkey
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#4368 Nov 01 2017 at 1:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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So the Pope falls asleep while praying, and claims it pleases God. Thus giving every Christian School child an excuse for napping during Bible lessons for the foreseeable future; except maybe Lutherans, of course.
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#4369 Nov 01 2017 at 1:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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I imagine that, at age 80, you fall asleep during a lot of things.
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#4370 Nov 01 2017 at 1:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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I imagine that, at age 80, you fall asleep during a lot of things.
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#4371 Nov 01 2017 at 4:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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I imagine that, at age 80, you fall asleep during a double post a lot.

Edited, Nov 1st 2017 3:14pm by stupidmonkey
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#4372 Nov 01 2017 at 10:27 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I imagine that, at age 80, you fall asleep during a lot of things.
On a slightly related note...did you stop posting for 7-10 days or am I hallucinating?
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#4373 Nov 01 2017 at 10:31 PM Rating: Good
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blarg

Edited, Nov 1st 2017 9:32pm by stupidmonkey
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#4374 Nov 01 2017 at 10:37 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
But it would be kinda nice if you'd join me in opposing the actions of those who also engage in violence against others, but happen to do so in the name of causes that you might be more inclined to support.
"Automatically hating and want to hurt Nazzzis is GOOD in 1942, but baaaaad in 2017!!!!"
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Jophiel wrote:
Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#4375 Nov 02 2017 at 7:16 AM Rating: Good
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
blarg
Yarr.
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#4376 Nov 02 2017 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good
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It's been a bit of a treat listening to the handful of Senator interviews on NPR about the "Social Media"<->"Fake News" issues. And trying to avoid the implications that come with a Government being involved with the possible limitations and censorship of speech. And then the "Do something. Or we will."
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