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#202 Feb 10 2015 at 9:41 AM Rating: Good
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I hadn't noticed. But now that you informed me that is all I will hear from now on.

Edited, Feb 10th 2015 10:42am by TirithRR
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#203 Feb 10 2015 at 9:44 AM Rating: Good
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I got to about 14 seconds before I had to stop listening so I'll just have to take your word on it.
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#204 Feb 10 2015 at 9:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Edit - speaking of ethical musicing, apparently Tom Petty gets royalties on Sam Smith's Stay With Me (song of the year) because apparently the music is the same as Won't Back Down.

Good news for Tom Petty's weed supplier.
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#205 Feb 10 2015 at 9:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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AV Club had a pretty good two-part article about songs that go way past homage to other songs and just frankly sound like them. I could hear the similarity most of the time, really couldn't on a few. "Stay with Me"/"Won't Back Down" was the gold standard.

What struck me was the obvious: big-hook earworm songs were more likely to be appropriated. The Kinks and Tom Petty were well represented on the stolen-from side, for example, because that's the kind of single they released for radio play.
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#206 Feb 10 2015 at 9:59 AM Rating: Good
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Okay, enough of the false interest in the Grammys. How about some false interest in the whole Brian Williams "scandal" and the collective holier than thou attitude the rest of the media reporters are adopting?
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#207 Feb 10 2015 at 10:09 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
See edit above.
Smasharoo wrote:
Based on 3 minutes of searching, she's only been nominated for best album twice. She did lose both times to white people. Beck has also lost twice to a white person. Haven't checked on other nominations beyond Best Album.

Beck seems like a nice guy. On the other hand he's a Scientologist, so he's either a closeted *** or a crazy person.
Well, in that case, it could also be that those crazy Scientologists have infiltrated the Grammys and are promoting their people. It wouldn't be the most psychotic thing they've done.


Hmm, wonder when /b/ and anonymous are going to charge the gates! Smiley: lol

Haha, dated reference!
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#208 Feb 10 2015 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Elinda wrote:
It's poorly written a statement.

Pot, meet kettle! Smiley: lol

Irrelevant. Though, if one of my poorly written statements could be perceived as being derogatory and offensive to a race of people, I'd correct it and move on.


The fact that you wrote a poorly written statement to decry what you perceive to be a poorly written statement is quite relevant with regards to the pot meeting the kettle.
Down boy. I didn't 'decry' a poorly written statement.

I merely said that the statement in question was poorly written and could be misunderstood. I'm a horrid writer. I've never claimed otherwise.


Well, your poorly written statement implies a poor reading comprehension, which, to my poor reading comprehension, implies a lack of ability to understand the original poorly written statement.

But I could be wrong, as I am a poorly written stupid monkey. But man do you stink up this forum with your poorly written statements.

At least you give me a reason to come back, you are a very prolific poorly written statement poster.
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#209 Feb 10 2015 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't know if I have much of an opinion on Williams. In real terms, if he lied about being in he helicopter (and he says as much), it's more of a silly ego thing than spreading false information such as falsified service records for Bush or doctoring videos to attack ACORN or paint mid-level Dept of Agriculture bureaucrats as racists.

On the other hand, if it blows his credibility then it hurts his employer to keep him at the desk. Credibility is more important for a newscaster/journalist than for most people who tell stupid-ass lies just to make themselves seem more interesting or important.

Edited, Feb 10th 2015 11:41am by Jophiel
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#210 Feb 10 2015 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I don't know if I have much of an opinion on Williams. In real terms, if he lied about being in he helicopter (and he says as much), it's more of a silly ego thing than spreading false information such as falsified service records for Bush or doctoring videos to attack ACORN or paint mid-level Dept of Agriculture bureaucrats as racists.

On the other hand, if it blows his credibility then it hurts his employer to keep him at the desk. Credibility is more important for a newscaster/journalist than for most people who tell stupid-ass lies just to make themselves seem more interesting or important.

Edited, Feb 10th 2015 11:41am by Jophiel

From what I understand he made up stuff about Hezbollah firing missiles at them. I suppose one could make the claim that Williams or even NBC were falsely trying to put a negative spin on Hezbollah.
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#211 Feb 10 2015 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:


At least you give me a reason to come back, you are a very prolific poorly written statement poster.

I'm glad I can do my part, but it's a bit frustrating when everyone simply ignores the message cuz it's more fun to attack the messenger.



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#212 Feb 10 2015 at 12:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
From what I understand he made up stuff about Hezbollah firing missiles at them. I suppose one could make the claim that Williams or even NBC were falsely trying to put a negative spin on Hezbollah.

I'll admit that I'm pretty ignorant of exactly what was claimed. I don't watch much TV news (essentially none) so the Williams thing didn't get much interest from me besides "Well, that was dumb".
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#213 Feb 10 2015 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:


At least you give me a reason to come back, you are a very prolific poorly written statement poster.

I'm glad I can do my part, but it's a bit frustrating when everyone simply ignores the message cuz it's more fun to attack the messenger.


For me, at least, that had nothing to do with it

ETA poorly written message on my part

Edited, Feb 10th 2015 10:51am by stupidmonkey
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#214 Feb 10 2015 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I don't watch much TV news (essentially none) so the Williams thing didn't get much interest from me besides "Well, that was dumb".
I'm really less interested in the details than I am the scramble almost everyone else is doing to protect what they think is their own credibility.
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#215 Feb 10 2015 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
...it's a bit frustrating when everyone simply ignores the message cuz it's more fun to attack the messenger.
How is gbaji posting from Elinda's account?Smiley: confused


Edited, Feb 10th 2015 3:53pm by Bijou
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#216 Feb 10 2015 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
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There's a little bit of gbaji in all of us.
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#217 Feb 10 2015 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
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Keep your weird fantasies/nightmares to yourself, woman.Smiley: mad
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#218 Feb 10 2015 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I'll admit that I'm pretty ignorant of exactly what was claimed. I don't watch much TV news (essentially none) so the Williams thing didn't get much interest from me besides "Well, that was dumb".

I don't know either, but Nexa tells me he was in some sort of convoy when what he claims happened, but to a different helicopter. Then she asked me if that seemed plausible, and I replied that no, in my experience, people don't process PTSD by remembering events in the way that makes them seem the most heroic. Then I told her to make that **** chicken stop squeaking and it turned out she smothered a baby. Good times.
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#219 Feb 10 2015 at 7:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Elinda wrote:
From what I understand he made up stuff about Hezbollah firing missiles at them. I suppose one could make the claim that Williams or even NBC were falsely trying to put a negative spin on Hezbollah.

I'll admit that I'm pretty ignorant of exactly what was claimed. I don't watch much TV news (essentially none) so the Williams thing didn't get much interest from me besides "Well, that was dumb".


Dumb, yes. Probably the result of re-telling a story over and over and it gradually changing over time. And yeah, a bit of "exaggerate my own personal part of it to make my story more compelling". Not shocking by itself, but it's interesting to watch the process over time. Basically, in the early versions he was very clear to state that he didn't come under fire, but that helicopters ahead of his did. Later versions played a version of the pronoun game: "*I* was in a group of helicopters and *we* came under fire, two of the helicopters were hit with RPG and AK fire, and *we* were forced to land" (I'm paraphrasing here just to illustrate the point, not actually quoting him). All technically true, but vague enough not to preclude the possibility that he personally was fired at. The most recent bit was where he just kinda lost track of the facts and actually said that his helicopter came under fire. Ooops.


While the directly false claim is just wrong on its face, for me it highlighted a more troublesome trend in journalism. I almost get the sense that journalists are so afraid of making a false claim that they tend towards specifically vague statements that could mean a broad number of things, and thus can't directly be called false. They then imply the facts rather than stating them clearly. The problem with this is that you can easily make the public accept a false claim without ever actually saying it directly (which I suspect is where he went wrong because he failed to see the line he crossed until he crossed it). Also, it leads to a strange situation where the media deliberately avoids presenting direct clear statements of fact to the audience, and the audience accepts this and adopts a method of interpreting the vaguely worded media reports as "fact".

Thus, despite him giving the vague version, which was technically true, but strongly implied to anyone hearing the story that he came under attack for many years, no one bothered to say "hey. Maybe you should be more clear that it wasn't your helicopter that was fired at". We basically accepted the implication either because we didn't research it to realize the implication was wrong *or* because if we did we accepted that the vague statement didn't directly make a false claim. Which, over time, probably contributed to him embellishing it further until he finally just made a direct false claim.


Yeah. TL:DR, whatever. I find this kind of process interesting is all.
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#220 Feb 11 2015 at 1:45 AM Rating: Good
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I'll admit upfront I know little of the Williams story beyond a few internet mentions, but going on what I've read here:

Let's say Grampa Bob was with Task force 17, which came under massive Japanese air attack at some point. Let us further say that the Japanese planes were targeting the carriers and Grampa Bob was on a fleet oiler.

If Grampa Bob is asked later if he was "attacked by Japanese planes" and his answer is "yes" I'd have no problem saying that he is correct.


That said, the few times I've ever watched Williams made me think he had the personality of an eggplant and wonder who gave him that job at all.
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#221 Feb 11 2015 at 2:10 AM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
I'll admit upfront I know little of the Williams story beyond a few internet mentions, but going on what I've read here:

Let's say Grampa Bob was with Task force 17, which came under massive Japanese air attack at some point. Let us further say that the Japanese planes were targeting the carriers and Grampa Bob was on a fleet oiler.

If Grampa Bob is asked later if he was "attacked by Japanese planes" and his answer is "yes" I'd have no problem saying that he is correct.
As I understand it, I think Williams was on a helicopter that came through an hour after the attack.
#222 Feb 11 2015 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
The problem with this is that you can easily make the public accept a false claim without ever actually saying it directly
Welcome to the 1960s.
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#223 Feb 11 2015 at 8:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Quote:
gbaji wrote:
The problem with this is that you can easily make the public accept a false claim without ever actually saying it directly


Welcome to the 1060s.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#224 Feb 11 2015 at 9:23 AM Rating: Good
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#225 Feb 11 2015 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
article wrote:
While the United States Supreme Court has ruled that the desecration of the flag is protected free speech,
They weren't making a statement, they were throwing random shit out a window. Calling the FBI (hell, even cops) is a definite overreaction, but trying to imply what the kids were doing was exercising their freedom of expression is equally ridiculous.

Edited, Feb 11th 2015 10:35am by lolgaxe
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#226 Feb 11 2015 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
article wrote:
While the United States Supreme Court has ruled that the desecration of the flag is protected free speech,
They weren't making a statement, they were throwing random shit out a window. Calling the FBI (****, even cops) is a definite overreaction, but trying to imply what the kids were doing was exercising their freedom of expression is equally ridiculous.
If they had said "The kid got suspended", I wouldn't have even batted an eye. The FBI thing was what made it a story to me.
#227 Feb 11 2015 at 1:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Story wrote:
The principal suspended the 14-year-old last week for ten days, but he's recommending long-term suspension or expulsion.

Right. Because calling federal authorities and recommending some kid be kicked out of school is definitely some A-Class school administration.
lolgaxe wrote:
They weren't making a statement, they were throwing random shit out a window.

Agreed. But, if the principal is trying to make a (literal!) federal case out of it because it's a flag then the protections for screwing with a flag should apply. If he was treating "throwing a flag out the window" the same as "throwing a textbook out the window" then there'd be no reason to bring up "protected free speech".

Edited, Feb 11th 2015 1:53pm by Jophiel
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#228 Feb 11 2015 at 7:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Except it's only protected speech if it's your flag. Assuming this was a planted flag serving its purpose as a flag and not just a flag sitting on a shelf or something, then it's arguable that the law in question applies. Whether this is a massive over reaction is a whole different story.

Frankly, the 10 day suspension sounds about right for tossing stuff out the window by itself. I'm not opposed to the idea of drilling into the kids heads that you don't treat a flag like any other random object in a room, but I don't think filing federal charges is the right way to go. Maybe have a school assembly with some military veterans to teach the kids about flags and how to properly handle them. It's not something that most kids are taught nowadays, so this would probably be a great way to go.
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#229 Feb 11 2015 at 7:29 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Frankly, the 10 day suspension sounds about right for tossing stuff out the window by itself..


When I rode the bus, things like that were handled by the driver. A student was caught throwing things out of the window, he/she was given an isle seat in the first or second row and that was his/her assigned seat for the length of the punishment. Only if the behavior continued or go worse were more actions taken.
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#230 Feb 11 2015 at 7:35 PM Rating: Decent
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TirithRR wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Frankly, the 10 day suspension sounds about right for tossing stuff out the window by itself..


When I rode the bus, things like that were handled by the driver. A student was caught throwing things out of the window, he/she was given an isle seat in the first or second row and that was his/her assigned seat for the length of the punishment. Only if the behavior continued or go worse were more actions taken.


This didn't happen on the bus. It was students tossing stuff out the classroom window. Not sure what the teacher was doing, or why it wasn't stopped earlier, but at some point one of the students decided that it would be fun to grab the classroom flag and toss it out the window as well. I'm assuming all of the students got some kind of punishment for throwing things out the classroom window. The flag thing is just an extra element.
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#231 Feb 11 2015 at 7:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Except it's only protected speech if it's your flag.

No, it's protected speech either way. That doesn't shield you from responsibility for stealing the flag or destroying someone else's property of course but the anti-desecration laws that have been repeatedly found to be unconstitutional don't suddenly become valid that way.

If I steal a printer and run off a hundred copies of my treatise of why the president is a poopy-head, my constitutional protection to call the president a poopy-head isn't nullified by the fact that the printer was stolen. If I'm a Native American of a select tribe and steal my neighbor's eagle feathers, I'm guilty of theft but my First Amendment protections to own eagle feathers for religious purposes still hold intact. I can't imagine why you'd think it's otherwise.

Edited, Feb 11th 2015 7:51pm by Jophiel
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#232 Feb 11 2015 at 7:42 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm. Not sure where I got bus from... I read through it while at work on my phone and thought it was talking about bus. Maybe I just didn't think of the possibility of it otherwise. Like, the windows in my high school didn't really open enough for people to throw stuff out.
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#233 Feb 11 2015 at 10:33 PM Rating: Decent
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The feds? Come on. What happened to the days when the teacher would put the unruly kid in a choke-hold and send them all down to the principal's office for a paddling? Principal was a veteran? Then he surely should be capable of putting a boot up the kid's ***.

Now I'm afraid somebody's gonna turn me over to the G men because I broke my mom's little car-door flag off while shoveling snow. Smiley: frown
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#234 Feb 12 2015 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
The feds? Come on. What happened to the days when the teacher would put the unruly kid in a choke-hold and send them all down to the principal's office for a paddling? Principal was a veteran? Then he surely should be capable of putting a boot up the kid's ***.

Now I'm afraid somebody's gonna turn me over to the G men because I broke my mom's little car-door flag off while shoveling snow. Smiley: frown
We got swatted.

There was a **** swatter, with three holes in it, that hung prominently on the wall behind the principal's desk.

If the boys were caught doing something dastardly during PE class they would have to take their swatting on the diving board...in the buff.
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#235 Feb 12 2015 at 7:32 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
If the boys were caught doing something dastardly during PE class they would have to take their swatting on the diving board...in the buff.
That's a little ****** up.
#236 Feb 12 2015 at 8:04 AM Rating: Good
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I know.

There was recently a post on my fb from classmates reminiscing about our Junior high school PE class. The boys had to swim in the buff, the girls had to use shared swimsuits (unless you were in the first class of the day, you had to put on a wet suit someone else had just swam in). At the time it all seemed quite normal, but from the comments maybe it wasn't quite...normal. Though, this was the practice across our whole district.
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#237 Feb 12 2015 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
But, if the principal is trying to make a (literal!) federal case out of it because it's a flag then the protections for screwing with a flag should apply.
But there was no speech here.
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#238 Feb 12 2015 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
But, if the principal is trying to make a (literal!) federal case out of it because it's a flag then the protections for screwing with a flag should apply.
But there was no speech here.

They were throwing books out the window too.
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#239 Feb 12 2015 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
I know.

There was recently a post on my fb from classmates reminiscing about our Junior high school PE class. The boys had to swim in the buff, the girls had to use shared swimsuits (unless you were in the first class of the day, you had to put on a wet suit someone else had just swam in). At the time it all seemed quite normal, but from the comments maybe it wasn't quite...normal. Though, this was the practice across our whole district.

Eww.
#240 Feb 12 2015 at 9:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
But there was no speech here.

Impossible to prove or disprove. I mean, I agree with you but all the kid has to do is say "I did it because..." and there you go.

Besides, anti-desecration laws are about speech as well. You don't get arrested for dropping a flag or letting it get mildewed in your attic, you get arrested for setting one on fire at a protest. Simple mistreatment or lack of care isn't desecration. So unless you're trying to prove that the kid was intentionally targeting the flag for a specific reason, you don't have desecration. But if you're making that case, you're making the case that the kid was engaged in speech/expression which is constitutionally protected.
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#241 Feb 12 2015 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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It's just a ******* piece of cloth.
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#242 Feb 12 2015 at 9:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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There's that, too. Personally, I'd say that a $13 piece of made-in-China cloth with stars and stripes on it deserves the same legal protections as a $13 made-in-China t-shirt. Probably because I hate America. The idea that we'd deify an object to the point of subverting the very ideals it represents is baffling.
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#243 Feb 12 2015 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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Terrorist! Smiley: mad
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#244 Feb 12 2015 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
The idea that we'd deify an object to the point of subverting the very ideals it represents is baffling.
Wait, are we still talking about the flag or the cross?
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#245 Feb 12 2015 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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Of all the items mentioned being ejected from the open window, I would imagine the flag to be the least offensive as it's not likely to injure an unsuspecting passer-by.

Edited, Feb 12th 2015 4:50pm by Elinda
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Wait, are we still talking about the flag or the cross?

This is America; they're one and the same.
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#247 Feb 12 2015 at 10:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Of all the items mentioned being ejected from the open window, I would imagine the flag to be the least offensive as it's not likely to injure an unsuspecting passer-by.

Edited, Feb 12th 2015 4:50pm by Elinda
As long as it's not attached to a pole/pike.
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#248 Feb 12 2015 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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A well folded flag can knock out a tooth.

Hypothetically. Hypothetically a well folded flag can knock out a tooth. Probably.
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#249 Feb 12 2015 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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Hypothetically. Hypothetically a well folded flag can knock out a tooth. Probably.
Your internet lawyers advise that you discontinue speaking further of any such hypothetical incident.
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House Republicans are demanding that McConnell abolish the filibuster for spending bills so they can pass their DHS funding legislation Smiley: laugh
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