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#202 Sep 08 2016 at 8:02 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
How can someone so intentionally write something so misleading.
I find myself asking that every few days.
Friar Bijou wrote:
He learned by reading your posts here?
It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife.

Edited, Sep 8th 2016 11:40am by lolgaxe
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#203 Sep 08 2016 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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I follow Chuck Gannon who has been nominated for both Hugo and Dragoncon awards. We're friends, after meeting back several years ago, when I won a raffle were he was to write a short story with a character base on me. He sent me several emails asking that I sign up to vote on Dragoncon Award's page and vote for him. Since I haven't been able to read Raising Caine yet, I decline to vote. I feel that if I'm going to vote for an award, I must read every book nominated.

I read the Dragoncon Awards rule when they were announce and am active on in the SMOF community. So I'm well aware of the Hugo rules and any changes being debated right now. Sadly I can't afford either membership at even an supporting level to be able to vote for the Hugo's. As a life member in Baltimore Science Fiction Society, I can also vote on books nominated for the Compton Crook award.

Now if you all want to donate to a fund to send me to next year Worldcon in Finland, I would be happy to send you my PayPal email address.

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#204 Sep 09 2016 at 7:18 PM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
My god. How can someone so intentionally write something so misleading.
He learned by reading your posts here?


ZING!!






Smiley: tongue


I did like totally softball that over the plate for ya.
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#205 Sep 09 2016 at 9:11 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
My god. How can someone so intentionally write something so misleading.
He learned by reading your posts here?


ZING!!






Smiley: tongue


I did like totally softball that over the plate for ya.
In super-slo-mo and providing me a bat the size of Deleware, to boot.Smiley: nod
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#206 Sep 12 2016 at 7:56 AM Rating: Default
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http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/hillary-clinton-s-health-scare-9-unanswered-questions-n646551

Yeah tell us how healthy this evil b*tch is.
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#207 Sep 12 2016 at 10:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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You have to donate more to her charity if you want a healthy Hillary to work for you. This mediocre level of giving only buys you a sickly Hillary in an over-starched pantsuit.
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#208 Sep 12 2016 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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Well, there's always the alternatives.
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#209 Sep 12 2016 at 12:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Is it really such a bad thing if a guy doesn't know where Aleppo is? I mean nothing good has come from us messing around there.

Edited, Sep 12th 2016 11:18am by someproteinguy
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#210 Sep 12 2016 at 12:30 PM Rating: Good
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President KAINE.

(Sounds like it needs to be followed by a Mwhahahahah!!)

Edited, Sep 12th 2016 2:31pm by Kelvyquayo
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#211 Sep 12 2016 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
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The wrestler?
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#212 Sep 12 2016 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
The wrestler?


I heard that in a "Doc Brown" voice.
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#213 Sep 12 2016 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Seems there is sociological reason for all the hate directed against Hillary.

Fear of a Female President

Not that I'm surprised. Specially by southern men, ho I've always found more upset when faced with any threat to their masculinity. I've lived all over the country and nowhere did I receive more sexism then from those white men who live south of the Mason Dixon line. The more southern the men are, worst it gets.
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#214 Sep 12 2016 at 4:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yes, it's amazing how the only concern people have with Hilary is her gender.

It's not like the first black president had any push back.
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#215 Sep 12 2016 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Is it really such a bad thing if a guy doesn't know where Aleppo is? I mean nothing good has come from us messing around there.

Edited, Sep 12th 2016 11:18am by someproteinguy

Funny enough, the New York Times, venerable Paper of Record, had to issue a correction to their correction on this story, because apparently they don't know where Aleppo is either.
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#216 Sep 12 2016 at 5:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Presumably the Times writer isn't asking to control our nation's diplomacy and armed forces though so it's not exactly equivalent.

Edited, Sep 12th 2016 6:33pm by Jophiel
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#217 Sep 12 2016 at 5:43 PM Rating: Good
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They do have about equal chance of winning though.
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#218 Sep 12 2016 at 5:56 PM Rating: Good
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Demea wrote:
They do have about equal chance of winning though.

If a Trump-Hillary debate were crushed by Giant Meteor 2016, I'd bet Johnson would have a much higher chance than the Times writer to fill the vacuum.
#219 Sep 12 2016 at 6:02 PM Rating: Good
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SMOD will exterminate all life equally.
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#220 Sep 12 2016 at 10:17 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Presumably the Times writer isn't asking to control our nation's diplomacy and armed forces though so it's not exactly equivalent.

Edited, Sep 12th 2016 6:33pm by Jophiel


Isn't Johnson's shtick non-interventionalism? It was my understanding that his broad policy on Aleppo is not giving a **** what is going on in Aleppo.
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#221 Sep 12 2016 at 10:23 PM Rating: Decent
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That was my take. What is Aleppo? Why is it something that we need to know about, that we're involved in?
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#222 Sep 12 2016 at 10:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Timelordwho wrote:
Isn't Johnson's shtick non-interventionalism? It was my understanding that his broad policy on Aleppo is not giving a **** what is going on in Aleppo.

A policy of non-intervention isn't remotely the same thing as non-policy based on ignorance.

You might as well say that Sarah Palin's inability to name three periodicals she reads was, in reality, a conscious reflection of her policies towards the "mainstream media".
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#223 Sep 13 2016 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
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ElneClare wrote:
The more southern the men are, worst it gets.


That's racist.
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#224 Sep 13 2016 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
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Demea wrote:
SMOD will exterminate all life equally.

Like all politicians, I'm assuming SMOD will over-promise and under-deliver.
#225 Sep 13 2016 at 8:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
What is Aleppo?
The next set of modern ruins that I'll be sent to to get diarrhea in.
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#226 Sep 13 2016 at 9:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wonder how much Jill Stein will benefit from this. You have the "I want to vote for a woman, just not Hillary" people, and the "if I vote for a different woman that means you can't call me sexist" crowd.

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#227 Sep 13 2016 at 6:04 PM Rating: Decent
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ElneClare wrote:
Seems there is sociological reason for all the hate directed against Hillary.

Fear of a Female President


I think this is more about attempting to paint any criticism of Clinton as an attack on her gender. I only need to read the first paragraph to see the problem here (or at least a huge disconnect):

The Atlantic wrote:
Except for her gender, Hillary Clinton is a highly conventional presidential candidate. She’s been in public life for decades. Her rhetoric is carefully calibrated. She tailors her views to reflect the mainstream within her party.


Really? Her gender is the only thing that differentiates her from other candidates? Not say... her long history of deceptive politics? Not her actions while serving as Secretary of State? Not her involvement in covering up (and outright hiding) information related to the Whitewater investigation? Not even her involvement with Whitewater itself? Not her poor decisions with regard to handling of classified materials? Not her constant lying to the public about those poor decisions?

People don't view Clinton as being untrustworthy because of her gender. They do so because she has a pattern where her first reaction to anything that happens is to lie about it and conceal it. Every. Single. Time. Even his latest health thing. I almost fell out of my chair laughing watching one of her spokespeople making a statement about how it was a mistake for them to conceal the facts about her illness, but assured everyone that there were no other things they were concealing. Um... But if she hadn't been seen stumbling and falling, we would not have been told about it, right? So the pattern here is that we only hear about these things when Clinton and Co are actually caught lying about them. Why should we believe that they're not lying *now*? What's the old saying about being fooled once versus multiple times? We're well past multiple time now.

And that's not even counting the one thing that is relevant to her role as a woman in politics. And that's her steadfast actions to defend and protect her husband against a list of women he's sexually assaulted (allegedly, of course). And not just that, but actively attacked them for daring to make accusations. Which is, you know, kinda the exact opposite of what a champion for women should have in her resume.


But it's all about fear of a woman president, right?
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#228 Sep 13 2016 at 6:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
stumbling and falling
Trump stumbled and fell on a 13 year old girl, but that's OK with the GOP.
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#229 Sep 13 2016 at 6:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Um... But if she hadn't been seen stumbling and falling, we would not have been told about it, right?

Probably not. Why do we deserve to know if she has pneumonia?
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#230 Sep 13 2016 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
I'm convinced that Hillary did sketchy things in her past, but Trump is, like, pristine and shit.
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#231 Sep 13 2016 at 8:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Um... But if she hadn't been seen stumbling and falling, we would not have been told about it, right?

Probably not. Why do we deserve to know if she has pneumonia?


Because a candidate's health does have an effect on people's support for them. Because the job of President is massively stressful, but the slightest sign of illness can cause stock markets to tumble, especially if the cause is concealed rather than revealed (shades of of Soviet style coverups of their leader's health really). Because this is not the first question about her health that has come up, nor the first report of issues with her health that has been shuffled out of public view as quickly as possible, which makes this look like a pattern that maybe the voters should be concerned about if they want to elect someone who will be clear headed when making decisions. Heck. Even the excuse given for her dumb statement on Friday (blaming it on the pneumonia which she didn't tell anyone she had) is a bit of a concern. Imagine the scenario where she's sitting in the situation room making life or death decisions, and makes a similarly poor decision (but with much greater consequences) because her judgement is impaired by some illness that no on else in the room is aware of. Worse case is the commanders in that room start to question her judgement and decisions because they can't know if what she's telling them to do is the result of a medication induced poor decision.

That's a very real concern.

You can say it's unfair or unimportant, but if that were really the case, then she would have had no issue with just announcing she was sick and taking the weekend off (or at least reducing her schedule). She clearly thought that the perception of good health was so important that she choose to conceal the fact that she was sick. Fair or not, we expect our president to have good health and be able to perform their duties at peak capacity. That may be unreasonable, but there is it. The very reason why she chose to conceal that she had pneumonia is the reason why the public deserves to know about it. You can't have it both ways.
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#232 Sep 13 2016 at 8:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Probably not. Why do we deserve to know if she has pneumonia?
Because a candidate's health does have an effect on people's support for them.

Having pneumonia isn't indicative of overall health. Healthy people get pneumonia.
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#233 Sep 13 2016 at 8:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
stumbling and falling
Trump stumbled and fell on a 13 year old girl, but that's OK with the GOP.


Huh? No clue what you're talking about here, so kinda hard to be "OK" with it. Maybe tell me something that folks who are not in the liberal echo chamber have heard about?
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#234 Sep 13 2016 at 8:46 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Healthy people get pneumonia.

But, if they have pneumonia then they aren't healthy... Smiley: dubious
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#235 Sep 13 2016 at 8:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Probably not. Why do we deserve to know if she has pneumonia?
Because a candidate's health does have an effect on people's support for them.

Having pneumonia isn't indicative of overall health. Healthy people get pneumonia.


Sure. So it's no big deal to say she's got pneumonia and will take a few days off to recover, right? Cause it's not a sign of bad health, right? Again, that logic goes both ways Joph.

Also, while it's certainly possible for a healthy person to get pneumonia, it's pretty rare. Usually, an existing cold or flu will evolve into pneumonia as a result of a compromised immune system, usually resulting from too much stress, not enough rest, not sufficiently treating the initial illness, etc. While you can certainly argue that she can't get sufficient rest while campaigning, so that caused her to develop pneumonia, the counter argument would be that the job of president is going to involve that level of stress and inability to take time off as well. The fact that she got that sick on the campaign trail could just be an unlucky coincidence. Or it could also be an indication of an underlying health issue. She may simply not be healthy enough to maintain a rigorous schedule and deal with things like colds and flu without them getting worse.

Fair or not, that's going to be a perception that some people will have. And that's precisely why she attempted to conceal it. And hey. If she'd managed to keep it together enough to not make it apparent that she was sick? That's a sign that she can handle this sort of thing going forward. The sad truth is that the perception of a leader is just as important as the reality. I'm sure lots of politicians get sick and just march on though it out of a need to appear strong. And given how rare things like politicians collapsing in public are, most of them are successful at it (or don't get so sick that they can't manage). Um... But she couldn't do it.

That is a concern. It may not influence your vote, but it may influence others people's. Kinda silly to insist that they shouldn't care about it, or to argue that it's unfair that they may care about something you don't. And again, if this was the first instance of this sort of thing, it might not be a big deal. But signs of Clinton not being in great health have been cropping up for a while now. So this is going to create a big question mark in many people's eyes.
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#236 Sep 13 2016 at 9:02 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm. I'm healthy. And I had pneumonia and/or bronchitis pretty much every year throughout elementary school. Then I got it twice in high school. Had to avoid football practice. From what I understood, pneumonia wasn't one specific disease, but a complication caused by a few different things, usually strep throat in my case. The infection would spread lower into my lungs and either infect my bronchial tubes or go deeper into my lungs and cause pneumonia.

Even as an adult I've had simple sore throats progress into a deep cough that can last for a week or two due to me saying **** it and not stopping to try to fix it. I'm sure if I had gone to the doctor they'd have diagnosed me with something along the lines of bronchitis (probably not pneumonia, as I've rarely felt the diminished lung capacity I did as a kid).
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#237 Sep 13 2016 at 9:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
stumbling and falling
Trump stumbled and fell on a 13 year old girl, but that's OK with the GOP.


Huh? No clue what you're talking about here, so kinda hard to be "OK" with it. Maybe tell me something that folks who are not in the liberal echo chamber have heard about?

You didn't know he's got an impending trial for raping a teenage girl?
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#238 Sep 13 2016 at 10:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Having pneumonia isn't indicative of overall health. Healthy people get pneumonia.
Sure. So it's no big deal to say she's got pneumonia and will take a few days off to recover, right? Cause it's not a sign of bad health, right? Again, that logic goes both ways Joph.

No it doesn't. I asked why you deserve to know she had pneumonia. You don't deserve to know it on the basis of "it's not a big deal". That would actually be a reason why you don't deserve to know it -- since it's not a big deal (by your own admission), the only reason to be informed is for gossip.

We both agree that healthy people get pneumonia and so pneumonia is not indicative of any lack of health above and beyond the illness itself. So, again, why do you deserve to know she had it?

Edited, Sep 13th 2016 11:23pm by Jophiel
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#239 Sep 13 2016 at 10:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
stumbling and falling
Trump stumbled and fell on a 13 year old girl, but that's OK with the GOP.


Huh? No clue what you're talking about here, so kinda hard to be "OK" with it. Maybe tell me something that folks who are not in the liberal echo chamber have heard about?

You didn't know he's got an impending trial for raping a teenage girl?
No Republican has ever raped anyone ever, so...no.
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#240 Sep 14 2016 at 4:58 AM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
Debalic wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
stumbling and falling
Trump stumbled and fell on a 13 year old girl, but that's OK with the GOP.


Huh? No clue what you're talking about here, so kinda hard to be "OK" with it. Maybe tell me something that folks who are not in the liberal echo chamber have heard about?

You didn't know he's got an impending trial for raping a teenage girl?
No Republican has ever raped anyone ever, so...no.
To be fair, there's been very little media coverage of the lawsuit. But it's likely due to the complete lack of reliable information about the situation and Trump's counter against it which seems to be their way of shush anyone saying anything bad about them (sue who ever is saying something bad about you). I don't think it's a good sign when your first search hits on the subject are Heavy.com
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#241 Sep 14 2016 at 7:22 AM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
To be fair, there's been very little media coverage of the lawsuit.
Well, yeah. A democrat passing out is far more damaging to the country than a guy that has been taken to court multiple times for sexual assault.
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#245 Sep 14 2016 at 8:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hillary is on deaths door.

Long live President Kaine!
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#246 Sep 14 2016 at 8:35 AM Rating: Good
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Someone dying in office would be more concerning if the alternatives weren't all worse than a corpse anyway.
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#247 Sep 14 2016 at 9:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Really? Her gender is the only thing that differentiates her from other candidates? Not say... her long history of deceptive politics? Not her actions while serving as Secretary of State? Not her involvement in covering up (and outright hiding) information related to the Whitewater investigation? Not even her involvement with Whitewater itself? Not her poor decisions with regard to handling of classified materials? Not her constant lying to the public about those poor decisions?
Was trying to convince a colleague of mine the other day that I'm not voting for her for reasons that have nothing to do with her gender. It took surprisingly long for me to get the point across to him. There's definitely a subset of the liberal base that can't see past the gender-based argument, and it's downright frustrating at times.
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#248 Sep 14 2016 at 9:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Was trying to convince a colleague of mine the other day that I'm not voting for her for reasons that have nothing to do with her gender.

Is it because you hate America? Is that why?

There's perfectly valid reasons to not prefer Clinton. Although I suspect that a number of people have reasons that are gender related -- not plainly "Ew, girls" but rather cultural conditioning of the "He's strong and aggressive but she's a bitch" and "He's really passionate but she's so shrill" variety.
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#249 Sep 14 2016 at 9:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Was trying to convince a colleague of mine the other day that I'm not voting for her for reasons that have nothing to do with her gender.

Is it because you hate America? Is that why?

There's perfectly valid reasons to not prefer Clinton. Although I suspect that a number of people have reasons that are gender related -- not plainly "Ew, girls" but rather cultural conditioning of the "He's strong and aggressive but she's a bitch" and "He's really passionate but she's so shrill" variety.
So wait... cooties isn't a valid reason then? Smiley: frown

Watching the Democratic side is being asked to embrace a career politician after Obama campaigning against that mindset for so long has been amusing though.
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#250 Sep 14 2016 at 9:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Watching the Democratic side is being asked to embrace a career politician after Obama campaigning against that mindset for so long has been amusing though.

Well, versus what? The other career politician that was running for the nomination? Versus Trump? That sort of ignores the sort of change people were (and likely still are) looking for. If I'm tired of McDonald's and my choices are Wendy's or a roadkill opossum, I'm not picking the opossum just because it's the most different. People were looking to Obama for change is a particular direction and Trump represents the opposite of that.

That said, I'm not personally opposed to career politics. Politics is a job and experience is a virtue. You can be experienced and useless, of course, like a guy who has inhabited a corporate cubical for 20 years and stays just because his longevity makes people assume he has value. But to be against someone purely because they have a wealth of experience is nonsensical. I'm opposed to term limits for the same reason; if you don't like the job someone is doing you have the option of voting against them.

Edited, Sep 14th 2016 10:59am by Jophiel
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#251 Sep 14 2016 at 10:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
But to be against someone purely because they have a wealth of experience is nonsensical. I'm opposed to term limits for the same reason; if you don't like the job someone is doing you have the option of voting against them.
Generally it's not the experience people are opposed to when it comes to career politicians, it's usually the corruption, conflicts of interest, not-criminal-because-loophole behavior, and things like that which turn people off from them. Hillary is certainly not alone in having those problems.

Quote:
Well, versus what? The other career politician that was running for the nomination? Versus Trump?
Indeed; does it even matter what you do if you're not given a reasonable candidate to vote for that matches your values? Sorry, there's only career politicians this time around. Sorry, both the major candidates are for increasing military spending. Is it any wonder voter turnout is so low?
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