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#577 Oct 17 2017 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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He did. They all had a laugh at how dumb you were.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#579 Oct 18 2017 at 6:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, I thought the "Obama didn't call families of soldiers!" thing was cover for the budget/taxes but I suppose it's equally likely his lawyers knew their travel ban was going to fail for the third time and so it's a distraction from that failure instead.

Edited, Oct 18th 2017 7:55am by Jophiel
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#580 Oct 18 2017 at 6:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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I am triple posting to distract from my failures as head of the Homeowners Association


Edited, Oct 18th 2017 7:55am by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#581 Oct 18 2017 at 6:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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This site's servers are terrible

Edited, Oct 18th 2017 7:54am by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#582 Oct 18 2017 at 7:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
They're engaged in activities which many fans find offensive. That is causing reduced viewership, ticket sales, and merchandizing. The league needs to step in and stop this. Period. In precisely the way that employee behavior which customers find offensive has to be stopped.

Sorry, Sport.
Reuters wrote:
The NFL did not seek commitments from its players to stop kneeling during pregame renditions of the U.S. national anthem but rather focused on helping them in their political activism.

“We spent today talking about the issues that our players have been trying to bring attention to. About issues in our communities to make our communities better,” NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell told reporters.
[...]
Goodell appeared less interested in stifling the silent protests, despite Trump’s wishes, and instead praised players’ character, saying he wanted to help their political activism.

“Today’s discussion with our players was very productive and very important. It reflected our commitment to work together with our players on issues of social justice,” said Goodell.

“Our players are men of great character. They have a very deep understanding and tremendous knowledge of the issues that are going on in all of our communities, and their commitment to addressing these issues is really admirable.”
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#583 Oct 18 2017 at 8:27 AM Rating: Good
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But according to Steve in Kentucky they have no right!
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#584 Oct 18 2017 at 7:56 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
They have no right to do so.
Other players seem to believe they have the right and are joining in, and the ones that don't aren't interfering. The coaches and trainers aren't penalizing the players and joined in, so they say the players have the right. The owners are also not penalizing, and have also joined in, so according to them they have the right. The league has come out and said they're not penalizing the players, and have said they're encouraging of it so they seem to believe the players have the right. There's no State laws prohibiting their protest, so on that level they're still good. Federal? Nope, no none there either.


All irrelevant. The fact that an authority has the power to say "no", means you don't have a "right" to do the thing you are doing. They are currently being allowed to do so by the teams and the league. That's not the same as having the right to do so.

The fact is, and this is something I've stated repeatedly, the league could tell the players they can't do this if they want to. They could punish players who do so anyway if they want to. They have chosen not to. That's not the same as the players having the right to do so. And it's certainly nonsensical to argue that the league "can't" or "shouldn't" punish them for this, because they have a "right" to do so, when you're basing that right purely on the fact that the league has not yet chosen to punish them for this.

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So, the fans? Well ...


Yeah. The fans. Also known as the customers. Kind of the most important element here.

The whole thing is silly IMO. The league (and many times, and frankly many players as well) are bowing to pressure based on the cause being protested. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, there are many pundits, writers, and activists being very public about declaring anyone who doesn't participate in the protests as racists. If you stand for the anthem you are standing for white supremacy. In that context, and in the absence of the league saying "no, all players must stand and show respect during the anthem", you're going to get a lot of players doing so, not because they think it's the right thing to do, and not because they are exercising a "right", but purely because they don't want to be the ones singled out for not caring about black lives.

Similarly, the league is afraid to put their foot down for the same reason. The problem is that this is a completely moronic position for them to take. It's not about the cause itself, and if they were smart they could tailor their response to that very point. If they allow players to protest in this manner, then they must allow any player to engage in a similar protest, for any reason. If they don't, then they put themselves in the untenable position of having to be arbiters of which causes are worth enough to justify a protest during the anthem, and which are not.

The league could very easily put their foot down on protests of this type, making it clear that it's not the cause being protested that they oppose, but the use of the national anthem as a means to protest. You make it clear that they are free to support any cause they wish while not on the field, not in uniform, and not during the anthem. And you make it clear that this is non-negotiable, and there will be suspensions and fines for any player using the game as a means to engage in demonstrations.

By being wishy washy on this, they're making things worse, not better. If they'd taken this position on day one, we wouldn't be in the situation we're in now. It's not going to get better until they finally act. Saying "we think players should stand and be respectful, but we wont require it" is not sufficient. It's just a green light for more protests. Because while they are doing and saying nothing to discourage the behavior, the players and teams are under significant pressure to allow and continue the behavior.

They just need to knock this off now.


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Ratings are down, as they were last year. They tend to dip early and build back up for Playoffs and Super Bowl. Attendance is down compared to the same Week 4 numbers last year and the year before, but it isn't as low as 2014. So with the actual facts and not emotional narratives it looks like even the fans feel the players have the right to protest, or are indifferent, as well.


The same fans who are booing the players while they are doing this? The same fans who are waving signs denouncing what the players are doing? While this is certainly anecdotal, if you do a google search on images of fans supporting/opposing NFL protests, you see a whole lot of folks with signs disagreeing with the protests during the anthem. I'm not sure I could even find a single one in support, by someone actually in an NFL stadium (the few I could find were folks at what looked like other protest marches, holding signs in support).

It's pretty clear that "the fans" overall, are not happy with what's going on. I'm not sure what "actual facts", you're talking about. The only facts that matter is an increasing number of very ****** off fans. When your entire business model revolves around making those fans happy, that's not a good thing.

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And that's just the numbers. If you want to argue the reason there's just as much evidence it's because people's attention spans are shrinking due to Netflix and DVRs (since the numbers are down for pretty much all sports), or you could say fans are boycotting player condition due to concussions and such.


If that's the excuse you choose to use. Again though, you'd think that in an era of flagging interest, doing something that makes those who still have interest upset with the sport, isn't a great idea. Rocking the boat you are in, is pretty dumb, but that's what these players are doing.

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But who are you going to believe?


The fans? My own eyes?

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Facts or a businessman turned politician who was burned by the NFL in the '80s and has a long documented history of lying and holding grudges?


This is not about Trump.
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#585 Oct 18 2017 at 7:56 PM Rating: Decent
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I'll take this opportunity to point out that the fact that the league chose (again) to do nothing, proves nothing except that the league is continuing to fail to do the same thing that fans have been demanding it do since day one of this. Take freaking action.

He's trying to please everyone, and in the process pleasing no one. Quoting a moron, continuing to act like a moron, isn't exactly a winning argument.

Edited, Oct 18th 2017 7:09pm by gbaji
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More words please
#586 Oct 18 2017 at 7:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Goodell wrote:
"The fact is that we have about half a dozen players that are protesting. We hope and continue to work to try to put that at zero -- that's what we'd like to do."
. Here's what he thinks is a half dozen players.

Sorry. He's completely out of touch and doesn't seem to grasp the issue he's supposed to be dealing with.

I'll point out, again, that he's making the mistake of thinking of this in the context of the specific thing being protested. it's not about that. The fans have no issue with the cause, but with the method of protest. Saying "it's ok, because we support the players and their opinion on X" is the absolute wrong way to approach this. It's not about X. It's about what they're doing. X is irrelevant. No one's upset because a player supports a given cause. They are upset because the players are behaving like children.

They'd be just as upset if they were protesting over global warming, or high taxes, or dog fighting, or whale hunting, or <insert cause here>. It's not about the cause. The sooner he figures this out, the better. Right now, he's so caught up trying not to look like he's in opposition to the cause, that he isn't addressing the issue at hand.

It's not about BLM. It's not about police shootings. It's about players behavior on the field. Period. As I mentioned above, if you make it about the specific cause, then you are now putting yourself in the position of arbitrating which causes are ok to protest this way and which are not. Which is *not* a position the league should be in. Establish a firm rule that no protests are allowed by players on the field, and you solve the problem. No bias. No picking sides. No one protests. Anything. Period.

That is the only solution that will work. How he can't see this is beyond me. Hence: Moron.

Edited, Oct 18th 2017 7:20pm by gbaji
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#587 Oct 19 2017 at 12:42 AM Rating: Good
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#588 Oct 19 2017 at 6:43 AM Rating: Excellent
Smiley: dubious
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#591 Oct 19 2017 at 6:46 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Sorry. He's completely out of touch and doesn't seem to grasp the issue he's supposed to be dealing with.
To be fair, that's pretty much par for the course for him on, well, everything.
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#592 Oct 19 2017 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
The fact is
Seeing as how everyone in any position to have a say in it, and even most people without a say, disagree with you, then that makes what you're saying an opinion.
gbaji wrote:
That's not the same as the players having the right to do so.
When everyone that has a say in the matter endorses it, then they have the right to do so.
gbaji wrote:
By being wishy washy on this
They're not being "wishy washy." They've very publicly endorsed it.
gbaji wrote:
The same fans who are booing the players while they are doing this?
The same fans that are overwhelmingly still paying for tickets and merchandise and watching on tv?
gbaji wrote:
While this is certainly anecdotal
There was actually a second you were writing all this out that you thought that somehow no one had figured out your entire argument is based only on anecdotes, wasn't there?
gbaji wrote:
I'm not sure I could even find a single one in support
What you're saying is unless they actually say something publicly then it doesn't prove they're actually for/against something? Especially after you just said that people that do support publicly are all "irrelevant." Now that is an example of being wishy-washy.
gbaji wrote:
The fans? My own eyes?
You keep saying fans, yet the numbers very clearly show that the vast majority of fans are okay with it or indifferent. But you saw a sign. And I'm going go ahead and do you a favor and only elude to your eyes' reliability as sources.
gbaji wrote:
If that's the excuse you choose to use.
People can only become disinterested or disenfranchise for one reason, and one reason only ever? If that's the excuse you choose to live with ...
gbaji wrote:
This is not about 45.
I'm sure a small fraction of that small fraction actually are genuinely offended, just like I'm sure that only a small fraction of that small fraction are only offended because the protesters aren't white. For you, though? Sure, it's just a coincidence how you just so happen to have the exact same views so often, especially after spending months insisting how corrupt he was.

Edited, Oct 19th 2017 9:52am by lolgaxe
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#593 Oct 19 2017 at 9:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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It is amusing how people who previously had less than a hundred words to say about football over the past ten years are suddenly VERY interested in the NFL's business workings.

Of course, this is about average for Gbaji whose previous football interest was just popping into bitch about halftime shows and Liberal Indoctrination Soda Commercials once a year.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#594 Oct 19 2017 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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I'm sure people will catch on to that little known artist Beyonce any day now.
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#595 Oct 30 2017 at 11:31 AM Rating: Decent
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http://cnews.canoe.com/CNEWS/World/2017/10/30/22761708.html

So people are going to prison now? It should TOTALLY be crooked Hillary and the dems though.
#596 Oct 30 2017 at 11:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well Papadopolous will be at least.

Gotta figure Manafort will be as well, as much as the right has distanced themselves from him over the last couple of months. Don't think he has any friends in high places any more. Hillary's cronies seem to be better at hiding their shady ****, or maybe just not being openly treasonous with it at the very least. Smiley: rolleyes

Podesta is a bit skittish though, perhaps?

Edited, Oct 30th 2017 10:59am by someproteinguy
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#597 Oct 30 2017 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Papadopolous secretly plead guilty and his recommended sentence in the docs is "zero months". He flipped.
#598 Oct 30 2017 at 12:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Huh interesting, missed that part. He may be away with no more than a $500 fine, which he could ask the judge to waive.

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Based upon the agreed total offense level and the estimated criminal history category set forth above, your client' s estimated Sentencing Guidelines range is zero months to six months' imprisonment (the " Estimated Guidelines Range"). In addition, the parties agree that, pursuant to U.S.S.G. § 5El.2, should the Court impose a fine, at Guidelines level 4 , the estimated applicable fine range is $500 to $9,500. Your client reserves the right to ask the Court not to impose any applicable fine.


Of course, it's not binding, but if he brings down a whole mess, doubt anyone is going to push for more punishment.

Edited, Oct 30th 2017 12:01pm by someproteinguy
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#599 Oct 30 2017 at 4:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Interesting thing about Papadopolous taking a plea is that the FBI is only interested if they think you have creditable information on people up the ladder. If he didn't know anything, the FBI wouldn't have struck a deal.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#600 Oct 30 2017 at 6:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Here's an unrolled Twitter thread from Seth Abrahamson. (Unrolled means you don't need to navigate Twitter to read it.)
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#601 Oct 30 2017 at 6:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Also, apparently Manafort's attorney had to testify to a judge about possible guilty knowledge of a crime, In other words, Mueller's team convinced the judge that attorney client privilege should be waived because there is compelling evidence that the attorney either knowingly helped Manafort cover up a crime, or was duped.

And all of this - Manafort, Gates, Papadopoulos - this is just the first shoe, with many more to drop. Mueller was on the Enron team, remember, and they successfully prosecuted most of the top execs (although Lay, may he burn forever, died before he was sentenced).


Edited, Oct 30th 2017 5:48pm by Samira
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