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#1102 Mar 20 2018 at 7:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
gbaji wrote:
For the Joph's out there, this is also a joke.
The true hallmark of a great joke is the need to alert those who hear it that it is, indeed, a joke.

As the kids used to say, I "touched a nerve" and made someone a little "butthurt"
gbaji wrote:
Samira wrote:
When Britney Spears shaved her head there was a certain amount of concern about her mental state, but I don't recall anyone calling her a skinhead.
Then you recall incorrectly

I am utterly insulted and will never read the, uh, Ireland's Independent Woman Celeb Gossip site... thingy... again!

God Samira, you must fee pretty humiliated to have forgotten about that!
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1103 Mar 20 2018 at 8:22 PM Rating: Good
GBATE!! Never saw it coming
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gbaji wrote:
Replacing some of the direct dollars put into EBT cards with boxes of the same sort would probably work pretty well.
Except for the vast and variable diets that people have (sugar/allgergies/cultural, etc), sure.
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#1104 Mar 20 2018 at 8:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Um... I recall that Sinead O'connor was consistently called "skinhead O'Connor" back in the day.
You have weird friends. She "looks like" a skin head? Sure.


Sigh. And again. For those of us who were actually in our teens or older in the 80s, the term "skinhead" had a radically different meaning that it does today. So yes, she was called a "skinhead" because that's... wait for it... exactly what she was. By the definition at the time. Everything about her, from her hairstyle, clothing style, political views, cultural views, etc, was consistent with the classical use of the term "skinhead". And no. It had nothing at all to do with racism.

You're looking at this from the other side of an historical retcon of the term itself and then trying to apply it backwards through time to a time period prior to that retcon. That's... nuts.
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King Nobby wrote:
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#1105 Mar 20 2018 at 9:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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In high school, in the 80's, skinheads were racists. I was punk rock. There was a little cross over. They were actually better at articulating their arguments than gbaji, because they were honest about their world view.
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#1106 Mar 20 2018 at 9:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I don't know what card Gbaji is trying to play with the "Those who were teens in the 80s" nonsense since that probably describes 90% of the (remaining) board population. "Skinhead" definitely had racist connotations in the 80s.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1107 Mar 20 2018 at 9:56 PM Rating: Good
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Lt Col Ralph Peters to Fox News wrote:


Link

Was it really only in the past decade that Fox News turned into a conspiracy/propaganda platform?
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#1108 Mar 21 2018 at 12:16 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Sigh. And again. For those of us who were actually in our teens or older in the 80s...
Do you think I'm 23 or something?
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#1109 Mar 21 2018 at 7:52 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
No.
This is the part where I act surprised you throw the Democrat under the bus but go out of your way to defend the Republican?
gbaji wrote:
For those of us who were actually in our teens or older in the 80s, the term "skinhead" had a radically different meaning that it does today.
It started being associated with racism and Neo-Nazis in the '70s in the UK by groups like the British Movement and National Front. By the '80s you had the White Aryan Resistance, Blood and Honour and Hammerskins adopting it.

Edited, Mar 21st 2018 9:53am by lolgaxe
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#1110 Mar 21 2018 at 8:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't really doubt that Gbaji has friends who called Sinead O'Connor a skinhead, but people who were doing so were doing it mockingly, saying "she looks like a butch jackbooted thug" and not "Say, that lady seems to have a closely-cut hairstyle".

Which is, again, the case here. No one, except perhaps Gbaji's strawman, is really claiming that the Maine idiot was saying "She must be a Neo-Nazi racist based on her haircut" (otherwise she'd be a right-winger!) but was still attacking a teenage girl's femininity and attractiveness based on being super-mad that she dared to have contradictory opinions about gun control. Which is pretty pathetic. Arguably not as pathetic as someone else who spends post after post defending that attack but pretty pathetic nonetheless.

Edited, Mar 21st 2018 9:55am by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1111 Mar 21 2018 at 8:40 AM Rating: Good
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It's what he thinks is a distraction. He believes that if he focuses on the etymology of the word we'll somehow forget that the person that used it meant to be insulting with it.
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#1112 Mar 21 2018 at 2:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wait, so some copy editor used "skinhead" to describe a look and save three spaces in a headline, and that's your retort?

Well, I guess I know when I'm beaten.
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#1113 Mar 21 2018 at 6:28 PM Rating: Good
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I've had my head shaved for probably 20 years and only time I've ever been referred to as a skinhead was by my dad. I haven't followed this story, so any chance the guy calling her a skinhead was a 65+ year old white guy?
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#1114 Mar 21 2018 at 6:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Was he a teenager in the 80s or older? I've heard that's a unique demographic that makes all the difference.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1115 Mar 22 2018 at 7:18 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
I've had my head shaved for probably 20 years
Voluntarily or to avoid a skullet?
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#1116 Mar 22 2018 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
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I let a friend cut my hair when i was 19. She was using electric clippers and when she went through the center of the top of my head, the guard slipped to the shortest setting, so i had her just buzz it. Then Halloween came along and i shaved it the rest of the way to go as Mr. Clean.


Nowadays, not so sure.
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#1117 Mar 22 2018 at 6:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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McMasters=out
Bolton=in
we=screwed
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#1118 Mar 23 2018 at 7:32 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
we=screwed
Screwed, but $20 richer. Smiley: thumbsup
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#1119 Mar 23 2018 at 4:06 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Samira wrote:
we=screwed
Screwed, but $20 richer. Smiley: thumbsup

Cool, who's next?
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#1120 Mar 23 2018 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
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I'm trying to decide between David Shulkin and John Kelly.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#1121 Mar 23 2018 at 8:24 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I'm trying to decide between David Shulkin and John Kelly.

Between those, I'd say Kelly.
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#1122 Mar 23 2018 at 8:28 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
It's what he thinks is a distraction. He believes that if he focuses on the etymology of the word we'll somehow forget that the person that used it meant to be insulting with it.


The entire thing is a distraction. I've stated multiple times that he clearly meant it to be insulting. I've never denied that. My argument has been that the fact that he leveled an insult about her based on her appearance does not in any way make her position magically "correct". Nor does it make his statement that her position and opinion is moonbattery "false".

The idea that we should all just ignore the positions being argued and focus instead on who called whom what is silly.

And yes, on the issue of what he specifically called her, I got it more in the classic sense of dismissing someone as a skinhead, not because of the connotation between the term and it's association with racist groups who opted for that style, but because of the earlier connotation that skinheads were often people who were angry about injustice in the world, but weren't often very good at articulating it, and often had very bad ideas about what to do about it, were otherwise ignorant of the facts surrounding the issues, and otherwise were a group of people best described as a hot mess. The skinhead movement was driven by a sense of "wrongness" in the world, which they somehow magically could perceive, and to which the answer was to step outside the mainstream and show just how different you could be, rejecting the norms, calling for "action", etc. But in a very non-hippy way, of course. It was all about counter culture.


And yeah, once you understand that motivation, it's pretty clear why racist groups gravitated to the same mindset and style. The difference is that what they saw as "problems" in the world were not things like world hunger, lack of jobs, lack of opportunity, lack of respect, etc, but focused on racial groups they did not like and whom they blamed for those things. It's not like it's hard to see the pattern here. The racist movements often feed on those other movements, grabbing up disaffected people and pointing them in a direction and giving them a target to focus their anger on. But the actual overlap between racist and skinheads, even today, is pretty freaking small. It's just that most people who fit the classic "skinhead" model, no longer call themselves that, specifically to distance themselves from the racial connotation.

Honestly though, "working class person with anger at unfairness in the world, adopting a radicalized wardrobe to indicate disaffection with the norm, and show how much they are in opposition to that norm, including short hairstyles, piercings, tats, and other ways to stand out" is a heck of a mouthful to say. Maybe we should come up with a new, short, term then?
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More words please
#1123 Mar 23 2018 at 8:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
Wait, so some copy editor used "skinhead" to describe a look and save three spaces in a headline, and that's your retort?


Does the headline have a 140 character limit? It's almost like there's a common factor here.
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King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#1124 Mar 23 2018 at 9:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
And yeah, once you understand that motivation, it's pretty clear why racist groups gravitated to the same mindset and style. The difference is that what they saw as "problems" in the world were not things like world hunger, lack of jobs, lack of opportunity, lack of respect, etc, but focused on racial groups they did not like and whom they blamed for those things.

Screenshot



Edited, Mar 23rd 2018 10:08pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1125 Mar 24 2018 at 12:22 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
skinheads were often people who were angry about injustice in the world, but weren't often very good at articulating it, and often had very bad ideas about what to do about it, were otherwise ignorant of the facts surrounding the issues, and otherwise were a group of people best described as a hot mess. The skinhead movement was driven by a sense of "wrongness" in the world, which they somehow magically could perceive, and to which the answer was to step outside the mainstream and show just how different you could be, rejecting the norms, calling for "action", etc. But in a very non-hippy way, of course. It was all about counter culture.
KKK, white supremacists and clearly a chunk of "conservatives". Holy crap! you hit the nail on the head!!
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Smash wrote:
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#1126 Mar 26 2018 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
The idea that we should all just ignore the positions being argued and focus instead on who called whom what is silly.
Says the guy who is ignoring the kid's position and defending the person who also ignored the kid's position in favor of name calling. But you keep playing junior etymologist, no one is really distracted by that either. Maybe instead of just learning words exist it's time to, you know, get a dictionary and find out what the words actually mean?

In related news, Santorum went full Marie Antoinette and says that instead of doing anything about school shootings those kids should just shut up and learn CPR.

Edited, Mar 26th 2018 11:59am by lolgaxe
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
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