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#152 Jun 23 2017 at 5:35 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Sekulow's comments (and 's tweet) were examples of reductio ad absurdum,
It requires everyone from the top of the administration to the random online cheerleaders repeating Kellyanne Conway talking points to be functionally retarded, but I guess it's possible since, well, there seems little evidence to contradict the theory that they are, in fact, functionally retarded.


No. It only requires that the listener have a basic understanding of sarcasm.

It also requires the listener, when faced with statements like this to not just leap to the quick gotcha of "OMG! He just contradicted himself", but rather examine the statements and noodle out why the other person might have made them. However, as we discussed in the other thread, it's obvious that when you are faced with such a scenario, you relish leaping to the absurd conclusion that the other person is engaging in direct contradiction rather than any far more likely and reasonable conclusion.

You get five seconds of satisfaction pretending that the other person is an idiot who can't keep his own position straight, but every sane person thinks you're the idiot because you're insisting on assuming the most absurd explanation instead of something else that makes more sense. Unless you're actively looking for contradiction in Trump's statements so you can point at it and declare it to be a contradiction, it was pretty obvious what he meant. He was pointing out that if the WaPO leak was true, then it would mean something completely ridiculous. Ergo, the leak is probably not true.

Everyone outside of the liberal bubble got this immediately. So yeah, you might want to check who is making themselves look increasingly stupid here.
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#153 Jun 23 2017 at 9:49 PM Rating: Good
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You get that investigation is also to discover crimes right? If I were to die right now and my body was discovered, the police would conduct a small investigation to see if I had died of natural causes. They don't know that a crime was committed; they are investigating to see if a crime was committed.

What we know right now is that Russia attempted to influence the election in Trumps favor, and that they successfully hacked the DNC, stole files, modified them with false content, and distributed them as propaganda. We also know that they attempted to directly access voting systems, but as of yet have no evidence any votes were changed.

Those facts alone are highly disconcerting, and--in their zeal to defend and insulate Trump--supporters are glossing over a foreign and not entirely friendly nation's efforts to disrupt our democratic process. You say it is a fishing expedition. Yes. That's exactly what an investigation is. There is strong reason to suspect collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, and so our intelligence agencies are attempting to gather evidence to determine to what extent that may be true, along with everything else. You don't conduct an investigation after you already convict someone as guilty; you conduct an investigation to gather the evidence to convict them of guilt.

A witch hunt is when an opposition lead committee finds you innocent of any wrongdoing, but still decides to run you through the wringer 6 more times, just to be extra sure. I wonder what your thoughts on that would be eh?

Edited, Jun 23rd 2017 10:55pm by Allegory
#154 Jun 23 2017 at 10:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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The order that Mueller is operating under states:
Quote:
(b) The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI Director James B. Comey in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:
(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and
(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and
(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).

(c) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters....

Investigating obstruction or fiscal illegalities or other matters is not a "witch hunt" or "fishing", it's an explicit part of Mueller's scope. Whining about Mueller investigating Kusher's financial ties to Russia for example is just petty tantrum throwing -- Mueller is empowered, and indeed directed, to do just that. But people like Gbaji would rather see crimes committed by Republicans go unprosecuted than to let the system work if it means they might lose even a sliver of power.
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#155 Jun 24 2017 at 7:04 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
You get that investigation is also to discover crimes right? If I were to die right now and my body was discovered, the police would conduct a small investigation to see if I had died of natural causes. They don't know that a crime was committed; they are investigating to see if a crime was committed.

What we know right now is that Russia attempted to influence the election in Trumps favor, and that they successfully hacked the DNC, stole files, modified them with false content, and distributed them as propaganda. We also know that they attempted to directly access voting systems, but as of yet have no evidence any votes were changed.

Those facts alone are highly disconcerting, and--in their zeal to defend and insulate Trump--supporters are glossing over a foreign and not entirely friendly nation's efforts to disrupt our democratic process. You say it is a fishing expedition. Yes. That's exactly what an investigation is. There is strong reason to suspect collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, and so our intelligence agencies are attempting to gather evidence to determine to what extent that may be true, along with everything else. You don't conduct an investigation after you already convict someone as guilty; you conduct an investigation to gather the evidence to convict them of guilt.

A witch hunt is when an opposition lead committee finds you innocent of any wrongdoing, but still decides to run you through the wringer 6 more times, just to be extra sure. I wonder what your thoughts on that would be eh?

Edited, Jun 23rd 2017 10:55pm by Allegory


But what about Benghazi?
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#156 Jun 26 2017 at 8:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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This post was fun.
gbaji wrote:
It only requires that the listener have a basic understanding of sarcasm.
Don't worry, I doubt that week you spent insisting how a joke about pyramids couldn't possibly be a joke because it wasn't historically accurate won't diminish your claim of just how great you are at detecting sarcasm.
gbaji wrote:
You get five seconds of satisfaction pretending that the other person is an idiot who can't keep his own position straight, but every sane person thinks you're the idiot.
Look, it's very possible that there are more voices in your head than posters on this board, but that doesn't actually make you the group consensus.
gbaji wrote:
Everyone outside of the liberal bubble got this immediately.
When you're as biased as you are you're going to immediately accept any absurd explanation that's given you. Yeah yeah, it's just a coincidence Conway dropped the sarcasm excuse the day before you started in on it.
gbaji wrote:
So yeah, you might want to check who is making themselves look increasingly stupid here.
Observable data, input from various sources going back years and calculating inverse probability matrices shows it's still you.
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#157 Jun 26 2017 at 8:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gbaji is a guy who really can't read an audience.
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#158 Jun 27 2017 at 11:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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You people keep forgetting about the silent majority who always PM him to keep up the good fight.
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#159 Jun 27 2017 at 12:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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[*********************************************************************************************************************************************************************** guy gives wonderful quotes...[/link]

Edit: Well that link went over well... Smiley: lol

realclearpolitics.com look for the "CNN Producer Caught on Tape Calling Russia Story BS" article for the 27th if you want to see the video and read more.

Quote:
"I haven’t seen any good enough evidence to show that the President committed a crime," he said. "I just feel like they don’t really have it but they want to keep digging. And so I think the President is probably right to say, like, look you are witch hunting me. You have no smoking gun, you have no real proof."

He also said: "It’s a business, people are like the media has an ethical phssssss…All the nice cutesy little ethics that used to get talked about in journalism school you’re just like, that’s adorable. That’s adorable. This is a business."


I mean 24-hour news networks are already thought highly of, so I'm sure this will help. Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Jun 27th 2017 11:30am by someproteinguy
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#160 Jun 27 2017 at 12:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kavekkk wrote:
You people keep forgetting about the silent majority who always PM him to keep up the good fight.


Silent Majority is my alt account. I also have an alt account named Simple Majority. There's a whole S&M theme
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#161 Jun 27 2017 at 1:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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I like how the "CNN producer" stories all gloss over that Bonifield is supervising producer of CNN Health and isn't part of its major news or political news divisions.

Aside from that, O'Keefe was ultimately full of shit about ACORN and Planned Parenthood so call me when he releases the full videos.

Edited, Jun 27th 2017 2:47pm by Jophiel
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#162 Jun 27 2017 at 2:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
I like how the "CNN producer" stories all gloss over that Bonifield is supervising producer of CNN Health
Well "was" will likely be more accurate at the rate he's going, as he seems to be a natural with the whole PR thing. Smiley: rolleyes
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#163 Jun 27 2017 at 2:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sure. Point being that the story is like the Ford VP of Marketing saying "The Ford Tallywacker is kind of shitty" and reporting it as "Ford Vice President says Tallywacker is Shitty!!!". Technically true but the fact that they're not really being honest says a lot in what sort of story there actually is. Of course, this is O'Keefe whose every story has been based on deception and clever editing of the facts to make it sensational so, yeah. Sort of surprised that people keep falling for this guy.
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#164 Jun 27 2017 at 2:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Sure. Point being that the story is like the Ford VP of Marketing saying "The Ford Tallywacker is kind of shitty" and reporting it as "Ford Vice President says Tallywacker is Shitty!!!".
"After the public already knows it's a shitty car." You forgot that part. Smiley: wink

Seriously though, what 24-hour news network doesn't do shitty sensationalism to keep ratings up? Don't see how this is at all surprising.

Edited, Jun 27th 2017 2:11pm by someproteinguy
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#165 Jun 27 2017 at 4:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm surprised they weren't covering a plane crash for day 1,691
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#166 Jun 28 2017 at 7:00 AM Rating: Good
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They'll find 14C's luggage any day now.
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#167 Jul 10 2017 at 8:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, we've evolved from "There's no evidence of any collusion!" to "Well, so what if there was?" and the Donald J Trump Jr defense of "Sure, I met with a Kremlin-linked lawyer who promised me damaging material related to the Clinton campaign but actually that information was junk so it doesn't really count..."
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#169 Jul 10 2017 at 9:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Well, we've evolved from "There's no evidence of any collusion!" to "Well, so what if there was?" and the Donald J Trump Jr defense of "Sure, I met with a Kremlin-linked lawyer who promised me damaging material related to the Clinton campaign but actually that information was junk so it doesn't really count..."
I knew having this prepared was going to pay off sooner than later.
George Carlin wrote:
But the politicians, god bless them or something like that, they are at their most entertaining when they are in trouble. When they are in trouble, their explanations usually began simply with words like miscommunication. What did you wrong Senator? Well, it was a miscommunication or I was quoted out of context, better yet and more ironic, they twisted my words. Such a nice touch, a person who routinely spends his days torturing the language complains, they twisted my words.

Then, as the controversy continues to heat up, he moves to his next level of complaint, the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. The whole, it’s always the whole thing, apparently, no one has never claimed that only a small portion of something was blown out of proportion. It has to be the whole thing, that’s because now he is feeling the heat. And so, as time passes and more evidence comes in, he suddenly changes directions and tells us, we are trying to get to the bottom of this, now he is on the side of law and orders, jujitsu, really.

We are trying to get to the bottom of this, so we can get the facts out to the American people that’s always a nice touch, American people. In fact, at this point, he might even say, I am willing to trust in the fairness of the American people. Clearly, he is preparing us for something.

And so, and finally all the facts comes out on our subject seems quite guilty, he employs that sublime use of the passive voice, mistakes were made. Mistakes were made, don’t look at me, probably someone in my office, things are moving faster now, mistakes were made is rapidly overtaken, but there is no evidence, no one has proven anything.

Eventually, I will be exonerated, I have faith in the American judicial system, and that certain sign that things are closing in, whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty, whatever happened, well now, yeah, well he is about to find out. And we know this must be true, because the next thing we hear from him is, I just want to put this thing behind me, and get on with my life. I just want to put this behind me, that’s an expression we hear a lot these days in all walks of life.

From people in all walks of life, usually the person in question has committed some unspeakable act, yes, it’s true, I strangled my wife, shot the triplets, set fire to the house and sold my young son to an old man on the train, but now I just want to put this thing behind. That’s the problem in this country, too many people are getting on with their lives. I think what we really need more of is ritual suicide, you know never mind the press conferences, get the big knife out of the drawer.

Personally, what I want to do is to put this, I want to put this thing behind me and get on with my life, thing behind me, and get on with my life. I’ll repeat that for you, personally I want to put, I want to put this, I want to put this thing behind me, and get on with my life, thing behind me and get on with my life. And just to round out this section, let’s hope there is a special place in **** reserved for those who have recently decided to take responsibility for their actions, that’s the big thing now, taking responsibility for your actions, like it’s a recent discovery, you know.

He is taking responsibility for his actions, well, isn’t that wonderful? Ask him, if he is willing to take responsibility for my actions, along with my alimony and my car payments, and my gambling debts.
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#170 Jul 10 2017 at 2:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Well, we've evolved from "There's no evidence of any collusion!" to "Well, so what if there was?" and the Donald J Trump Jr defense of "Sure, I met with a Kremlin-linked lawyer who promised me damaging material related to the Clinton campaign but actually that information was junk so it doesn't really count..."



That's what I took away from it as well. "Okay, I did meet with them, but what they were offering was worthless! So we talked about adoptions, which were curtailed because of sanctions. Hey, is that important?"

It's a short step now until someone says "Won't someone think of the ORPHANS?"
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#171 Jul 10 2017 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good
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Hey, he met with Putin who promised not to meddle in US elections against Trump as long as he is in office. Case closed. Case. Closed.
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#172 Jul 10 2017 at 3:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Timelordwho wrote:
Hey, he met with Putin who promised not to meddle in US elections against Trump as long as he is in office. Case closed. Case. Closed.


And he even wanted to set up a cyber with Putin! He was so excited about it. Poor little Donnie Two-Scoops, no one lets him have any fun.
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#173 Jul 10 2017 at 9:37 PM Rating: Good
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Johpiel wrote:
Well, we've evolved from "There's no evidence of any collusion!" to "Well, so what if there was?" and the Donald J Trump Jr defense of "Sure, I met with a Kremlin-linked lawyer who promised me damaging material related to the Clinton campaign but actually that information was junk so it doesn't really count..."

This is honestly not all that bad for Trump, having it slowly trickle and escalate.

It's funny to mock, but at some point when it reaches "Sure Putin has a button that directly controls each individual American's life." you have to stop laughing.
#174 Jul 10 2017 at 11:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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"You can collude all you want with a foreign government in an election. There’s no such statute."
"Collusion is not a crime"
"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody"
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#175 Jul 11 2017 at 7:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
This is honestly not all that bad for Trump, having it slowly trickle and escalate.

That's certainly not the conventional wisdom. Even Trump and his people are frustrated at how they can't put the "Russian thing" behind them.

The constant drip erodes Trump's standing as they are caught time and again in lies. It cuts at his legitimacy -- not in a "He's not really president" strawman but it makes people care less that he's president since he has less and less of a mandate as more information comes out about how the election was won. This is a real concern for Trump which is why he constantly goes apeshit when someone points out popular vote totals and tries to reinforce his electoral win at every opportunity. It diminishes the United States' standing with the rest of the world when they suspect that our president owes something to Russia. It takes the air out of the room when trying to enact his agenda as legislators are asked to publicly ally with someone who may be under indictment in the future (or, if not him, his kids or other inner campaign staff). It means that Trump never has a good news day because something new is dripping out every day.

Worse, this won't be behind him any time soon. By the time Mueller is done and then you have the Congressional meetings and investigations in to Mueller's report, you're looking at 2018 at least, maybe even 2019.
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#176 Jul 11 2017 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
It means that Trump never has a good news day because something new is dripping out every day.
Erry day is a good news day as long as Fox News exist.
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