Two Handed  

Classes: Armsman, Paladin
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# Jun 11 2003 at 8:19 AM Rating: Default
many people have posted here, MANY!
# Jan 27 2003 at 5:23 PM Rating: Decent
hey everyone, just wondering if anyone ever had a character with 50 2 handed to get sun and moon. I use the bone bruiser/breaker/splitter and I love them. Please get back if you know anything.
2H is for Pallys only!
# Sep 03 2002 at 8:39 PM Rating: Default
Arms/ Pally 2H?

We need to get this down, once and for all.

Armsmen are a purely offensive machine, if you like pure damage in melee – this is your man. Any Armsmen should, by nature go Polearm, period. No question about it. Ask the thousands of Armsmen who used the “respect” during the last patch, to change to Polearm from all the weird and wonderful styles everyone had to try, including 2H. I guess they woke up and got fed up being beatin in RvR. His shield is his armor; his best defense is his devastating attacks, which kill them before they kill him. It is this characters design to do maximum damage and improving that is all he should be concerned with.

Paladins are a whole different matter, the exact opposite. Pallys are purely Defensive. Even their buffs, except that waste of time “Battle chant”, are all defensive. Speaking of Battle chant ask a 40+ Pally how much good is and Extra 6 or 8 pts damage to creature that’s got 1000hp and is hittin you for hundreds at a time. In the 40’s that’s common. All other Pally chants, with the exception of the “Ghetto Rez”, are all defensive. Unfortunately, defensive wont cut it, even a green will kill you if it whacks you long enough. So with all that in-built Defense what’s a Pally got to do, get some offense of course! The best by far way to do that for a Pally is 2H. Choose Slash or Crush, but there’s no better way. Many have tried it.

As far as specs? Now talking to Pallys whose weapon 2H really is. There’s a reason we are called the thinking mans character. Unlike Armsmen who can max Pole/ Parry and dump the rest into whatever base attack they like – WE have that wonderful gift called Chants, which pretty much nerfs the whole character in augmenting it. We have to spend a minimum of 465 training pts in Chants to get revive at lvl 30. this effectively nukes the chance of us fully developing any of our other abilities. Unless Pallys get more training points he will always suffer as a character. To go 2H, and you should, you definitely want Parry, but due to chants, at best you will only be able to go three quarters of your lvl in 2H, half in Parry and dump a few into an attack skill to be safe. That’s it, and some tough choices. Not an easy char. Many say gimped, I just think we need a little balancing.

The lady below who did the arms 2H only train vs 2H and then full spec in attack style, sort of wasted her time. I would really like to have seen her be full 2H, then add 2 pts at a time to attack style until you reach a point of diminishing returns. For instance, using her example; At 10 pts 2H and 8 pts Slash, she was more effective, but who’s to say she would not have been equally effective at 8 pts 2H and only 4 pts Slash? This question is nothing really to Armsmen, but to Pallys who are points starved it makes all the difference.

Every time I see an Armsmen or Pally with a shield I think shame; they are getting perhaps 50 – 75% use out of their character, but still, they are having fun! At least I hope so cause that’s the whole point!

Good Luck out there Guys!

“Run Hibby run – cause I’ll catch ya sooner or later”
RE: 2H is for Pallys only!
# Jan 10 2003 at 9:48 PM Rating: Decent
I have to disagree with you almost completely.

I have a 2h lvl 42 armsmen. I am spec'd 42 2h, 40 parry, 10 sheilds, and 10 crosswbow. I've also autotrained 10 in both thrust and slash.

I have also at 1 time made a lvl 24 armsman who was polearm. It's been months since I played him, so I'm not sure on the stats other than I was spec'd fully in polearm, some in parry and thrust, and some in crossbow.

The polearm basically bites for anything other than doing damage as you've said. You can't slide into other roles when needed. You swing fast enough to peel at all. Unless your in a big group with other tanks who can pick up the slack your going to find your groupmates dieing and your groups falling apart. If you miss 1 time when something aggro's a caster that caster is most likely dead. And if you miss during battles, you'll find those casters getting the agro most likely. When you figure in that all weapons have about the same chances of hitting and figure in missing over time, you'll find that the damage is not that great afterall. Sure, if you can hit everytime(which strangely, is how most people figure their damage over time) you'll come out on top, but we all know it rarely happens like that.

The 2h armsman does suffer in this somewhat. However not near as bad. Meanwhile he can still do damage that is close to the polearm (and sometimes out damage them) And with my stats maxed out and theur buffs I can swing almost as fast as a 1 handed. With parry you have enough defense to get an edge. Sometimes yellow con's never touch me. I guess this could also be said about the polearm user. However, I found the damage difference in min and max to be big enough that if I didn't put points into the base, I would not hit hard at all. Thus I could not put as many points into parry to get this. With the 2h, the min and max doesn't seem to be as much and autotraining in the base skills does not make much difference. I see a swing of 20-40 dmg in my swings normally. When your hitting yellows for 100-150, it's not much at all when you figure in the benefits of the extra parry.

I have a guild mate who is a polearm armsman. He definetly puts out more damage than me, and he loves the polearm. I guess it's a matter of prefrence and alot defintely depends on how and who your group with and what you want your role to be. However, I found the 2h armsman to be much better for filling in spots for group and helping make things work. As the the title of armsman says, they do what it takes to get it done. I'm not saying the polearm is bad, I just don't think it's the best the armsmen has to offer.

But, there is another side of arms, which you totally must not understand. Defensive tanks are very valueable to any group. I don't see how anyone could say they aren't. Shields do great damage and have defensive bonuses added in. In many ways, I think about switching my arms to sword and shield.

I recently made a pally, he is lvl 15 now. I made it for a special group my guild is making. Our group consists of pally's and ice wiz's. Mostly pallys. We are all specing full chants and shield/sword. I personally have went full chants and 1 pt down in shields. While we are still in the teens, or group literally kicks but.

Tonight with just 4 of us(3 pally's and 1 ice wiz) we were able to kill 8+ things at a time. And that is not counting the constant agro's as we were standing in an agro part of the tomb raider camp past broken bridge. We pulled nonstop when they weren't constantly agro'ing. Mixtures of grapes, reds and oj's. I think we all got 2 lvl's in 30-45 minutes of fighting.

At the end of these battles, we pretty much were full on life and ready for the next. Our strategy is nothing elaborate. We all stand close to each other so we can guard each other, most everything is blocked. We all run heal chant, and 1 other other chant a piece, extra's run dmg chant or end chant. We hold the agro, and the ice wiz pbaoe's the group. Put intercept on the wiz in case and go wild. I seen agro coming and I just knew we were dead. You can imagine my surprise when we had 6 or more on us at 1 time, with others coming in and we easily make it alive. I've tried the ice wiz thing with my 2h armsman and a 2h pally. It will work to an extent, but nothing like it did tonight. This is the advantage having a shield has. Shield also comes with other useful abilities when used.

I also have little trouble soloing oj's on my own. My shield does decent damage and I have my sword going at the same time. Although these low lvl styles take a ton of end, with my pally this is not much of a problem. I was honestly shocked to find the shield did as much damage as it did. So, you have a shield that does damage and blocks, along with a sword to swing and parry.

"Speaking of Battle chant ask a 40+ Pally how much good is and Extra 6 or 8 pts damage to creature that’s got 1000hp"

I have no idea where you get this. I grouped with a 2h pally with full chants from lvl 15-42. As we are both offensive tanks, dmg chant gets run a pretty good bit. It enhances our role. Not only does it hit for way more than 6 or 8 at 42, that is multiplied by the number of people in your group. I think the current damage add hits for 32 or so, maybe up towards 40. Somewhere in that area. Multiply this X 4 melee chars in your group and your looking at an extra 100+ dmg every 4 seconds or so. That is a good bit more than 6 or 8.

Pally's will not be able to spec in advanced weapons as well as an armsman. And they will do less damage. I currently outhit the 2h pally I group with by about 20-30 points. My extra strength also plays a role in this. But as I said above, the min and max range is not that great. While I have thus far autotrained in the base skills, once I get 11 pts in slash and thrust I do plan on raising my base lvl in thrust to 25.

"Unless Pallys get more training points he will always suffer as a character."

I completely disagree that the paladin suffers at all as a char. A pally can find a group 100 times easier than the armsman and there is a good reason for it. If they suffer as a character, It is the controller that is the reason.

Btw, I really dislike the fact that we must base train to use 2h, yet mids not only only have to spec in 1 line to get 2h, they can use the exact same styles with 1h or 2h. That was somewhat surprising to find out.

Considering you have to spend points in 2 areas with 2h and polearm to get better overall damage, I'd say that those are the ones who are only getting 50-75% use out of their character. It's the shields that bring the extra uses out of the character. I like them both equally, just really depends on what kind of mood I'm in.

And the 1 thing I did agree with you on was if they are having fun it doesn't really matter because thats the whole point.

I also realize your thread was made many months ago, and things have changed since then(endurance chant I think). So please excuse those that have changed and think of the corrections as updates.
RE: 2H is for Pallys only!
# Jun 03 2003 at 7:29 PM Rating: Default
no hes right, 2h is for pallys only a 2h armsman is just stupid, and btw i think shame when i see a armsman with shield to, not really pallys tho sure s/s pally suck rvr but pve they not to bad, back to the point a paladin is just a armsman with chants so basicly a 2h armsman and a 2h pally, same thing exept pallys got chants thus he will win the battle armsman special ability making them different is the ability to use polearm using that they can become much stronger its a waist making a arms 2h and its a waist making a arms ANYTHING exept polearm
two hander
# Aug 08 2002 at 3:09 PM Rating: Default
can someone tell me what weapon damage is based on for a two handed it strength or strength/dex?
2h Rockzzz
# Jul 24 2002 at 5:05 PM Rating: Default
I play a 2 hand Armsman and i love it, i love the big hunk of metal on my back, i do a heck of dmg, and im looking cool.

btw, does "Crush Born Sword" tells u something?

right, its the Flame-sword including a DD spell.

Swords are THE weapons, believe it or not!
# Jun 11 2002 at 10:30 AM Rating: Default
Could somebody tell me where should I spec in, and wich one is the best (2h or Pole), I was thinking of specing in 2handed Slash, is that could? But a lot of ppl told me that pole is best than 2H, is it true? If it is should I spec Pole Slash, Thrust or Crush? And if its 2handed should I spec in Slash, Thrust or Crush?? Pliz give your opinion, and pliz responde (60% of the times nobody respondes...)
RE: Help
# Jul 16 2002 at 12:07 AM Rating: Default
I play a polearmsman and I used to play a 2h armsman just too see cwhich was better and polearms dominate compared to 2h. I didn't play them high enough for serious RvR (just lvl 30 each). At first you may not like polearm but later at like lvl 15-17 you will absolutley love it.

Hope this helps
# Apr 22 2002 at 1:35 PM Rating: Default
lvl 20 by the way.
# Apr 22 2002 at 1:31 PM Rating: Default
I have a 2H full spec Paly.. 5 in slash.
Auto consistantly hits for around 50+ with reg blows.
If spec in slash/crush/thrust were so important, it would only make sense to see a large variation in damage. i.e.
50,30, 45, 34... not 55, 54, 52, 56,.. my damage is consistant.. thus negating any floor or ceiling effect from specing in slash.

Good luck mates.
looks like one...
# Apr 21 2002 at 6:10 AM Rating: Default
It looks like a two-handed weapon, and it hits like a crushing weapon, but apparantly, it's neither.

Just in case anyone's curious (I was). You can't use a staff for 2-hand styles. And specing in 2-hand will not increase your maximum or minimum damage.

Sadly, countless grey wolf pups had to die for this experiment...

and fyi, the same holds true for crush spec: it does nothing for staves.
# Apr 19 2002 at 9:47 PM Rating: Default
How much is it worth to put in 2h skill?
and how much in chants?

RE: 2h
# Jul 24 2002 at 10:22 PM Rating: Default
RE: 2h
# Jun 04 2002 at 12:07 PM Rating: Default
if u max in chants u will get rez at lvl 30 if not u will get it later...
Level 50 2-Handed Skill
# Apr 14 2002 at 8:12 PM Rating: Default
Is it worth it to put 2h to 50? Is the level 50 2h skill any good now that they have it working?
Any answers will be most welcome, thanks.

Goretain 39th lvl 2h Arms Tristan
Paladin Protect I
# Mar 16 2002 at 8:35 AM Rating: Default
I acn't find anything that tells me what this skill actually does. Can someone tell me how it is used and what it does for a lvl 9 Paladin?
RE: Paladin Protect I
# Jun 04 2002 at 12:10 PM Rating: Default
u take the hiy for somone else......u select someone and then use it it will say "you will now automaticlayy try to take the hit for <name>" then it does just that
RE: Paladin Protect I
# Jul 24 2002 at 1:42 AM Rating: Decent
Er, no.. Intercept is the skill that lets you take the hit over someone else. Protect line splits the aggro between you and the person you are protecting. (ie. Cleric) Thus, while protecting the Cleric, the enemy will be less likely to aggro to he/she when you are healed because you are distracting the target.
# Mar 03 2002 at 9:04 AM Rating: Default
How to Skill a 2 hand Armsman?

2 hand 50
slash 50
Parry 28


2 Hand 50
slash 34
Parry 46

I dont know hoew important slash is? I know it increases min-dmg, but i also think Parry is Important too....

PS: I hope Plate Armor is way better than Chain, its cause i drop my Mercenary who rules PvM Combat but in a bad RvR chase (4 Guys hit you) i guess he wont be good at :)
RE: Skilling
# Apr 28 2002 at 1:27 PM Rating: Default

50 2h
50 pary
28 (whatever weapon you like)
and theres enough points to get another skill to like 11
RE: Skilling
# Jun 03 2003 at 7:35 PM Rating: Default
how bout neathor bringing any spec to 50 just dont make sense im specing my 2h pally: 39 2h 39 slash 46 chants and the rest in parry. with all that damage you dont need your parry to high
Weapon Type
# Feb 17 2002 at 10:40 AM Rating: Default
Some one said "I disagree. That quote you have says 'specialization in the weapon type' - seems to me that that would mean Slash, Crush, Thrust, not 2 handed. With my 2 hander Armsman (yes its effective), I've noticed my damage improving a little with each point I put into Slash. I haven't put many until this is confirmed tho."

Well "weapon type" can be slash, crush, polearm, two-handed, etc. "Damage type" is only slash, crush, or thrust.
RE: Weapon Type
# Feb 20 2002 at 1:58 PM Rating: Default
pushing 2h will increase ur max dam, if u'll raise min dam u have to skill slash as well

i skilled slash 2/3 of 2h and it works nicely ;)
Using 2 handed skill in succession
# Feb 11 2002 at 4:07 PM Rating: Default
Is it true that I can only use certain trained 2 handed swings only after using specific ones before it? For instance "2 fists" can only be used after successful "double-back". How do you know if double-back was successful. I end up missing after trying to make this all work. I get frustrated and just stand there letting the character slash automatically on his own, using chants. Can someone help me out?

13 Paladin
RE: Using 2 handed skill in succession
# Feb 27 2002 at 4:35 AM Rating: Default
Well... You'll know that you've succesfully performed a certain skill when it says so in the message box.. on top of that, your character will make a unique "special" move, wich involves a cool sort of lightning trail emitting from your weapon.. in your example.. you try to perform "2Fists" after a "Double Back".. maybe you haven't performed the Double back correctly, in order to make that one work, you have to attack your opponent from the back (wich usually only lets you use it the very first time you strike someone), as soon as you see the lightning trail from your weapon, you should emediatly press the key for the 2fist, wich (hopefully) then should be performed right after the Double back...

Happy slashing!!

Flashing Blade
10th level Paladin
2h or slash/shield??
# Feb 07 2002 at 12:28 PM Rating: Default
I have a lvl 6 Armsman with 6 inot slash and 4 into shield. I cant decide whether to go 2h or stay with slash/shield. Anyone have advice on what to do? Is there enough skill points to go 2h and slash/shield and still be effective? At lvl 15 what lvl should my skills be at?

percival server
dose Slash, effect Twohand Wepons (Using a Sword) - Results
# Jan 26 2002 at 6:13 PM Rating: Good
Ok, being 'Armsman' and wanting to use a Two-handed Sword, i have read many conflicting posts on weather the SLASH* skill affects Two-Handed Wepons (Sword*).So I decided to test the idea.
I level'd an Armsman to level 10 (without spending any spec points) and spec'd to skill level 10 in 'TWO HAND WEPONS', i then went and killed enough blues (Making a note of the damage inflicted) to give me 100 HITS worth of infomation.
I then went and trained my 'SLASH' skill to level 8 and collected the data of another 100 HITS.
Here is the data on a Two-Hand Sword without 'Slash' skill (Damage / Number of Hits):
(16 / 3) (17 / 8) (18 / 15) (19 / 8) (20 / 8) (21 / 11) (22 / 11) (23 / 6) (24 / 5) (25 / 7) (26 / 8) (27 / 6) (28 /4)

Here is the data on the same Two-Hand Sword with 8 points in 'Slash' skill (Damage / Number of Hits):
(23 / 1) (24 / 9) (25 / 8) (26 / 16) (27 /14) (28 / 6) (29 / 7) (30 / 5) (31 / 16) (32 / 6) (33 / 4) (34 / 6)

as you can see, the extra points spent in slashing have made a noticable difference to the damage output.
I also recorded the Miss / Crit per 100 SWINGS but this didnt change much from adding the skill points. On avrage i got 10 misses & 10 Criticals (of varying damage) per 100 SWINGS

Hope this infomation helps...

Excaliber -Euro Beta
Merribeth armswoman of Alb.
Merridoc Nightshade of Hib.
Gaibriel TEST armsman of Alb.
Zerobunny x><x - master of subspace ! $$$
RE: dose Slash, effect Twohand Wepons (Using a Sword) - Resu
# Jan 30 2002 at 4:35 PM Rating: Default
Interesting test. Glad someone took the time to do it. I would like to know what level you were when you trained up to 8 points slashing. If you can prove nothing else was efecting your damage output besides the slashing skill, you will have proven slashing effects twohanded.

Your max damage output is higher with slashing, and slashing was reported to only raise min/dmg.

But once this is proven, "if slash contributes to the twohanded skill", the pros and cons of takeing points away from other skills to feed the slashing skill will have to be worked out.
RE: dose Slash, effect Twohand Wepons (Using a Sword) - Resu
# Feb 03 2002 at 7:14 PM Rating: Default
Thanks :) i was level 10 when i carryed out the test, i started level 10 at : 2 slash, 2 thrust (auto trained) then incresed my Two handed wepon skill to 10, did the 1-st part of the test, then incresed my slash skill to 8 (at level 10).

Excaliber -Euro Beta
Merribeth armswoman of Alb.
Merridoc Nightshade of Hib.
Gaibriel TEST armsman of Alb.
Zerobunny x><x - master of subspace ! $$$

RE: dose Slash, effect Twohand Wepons (Using a Sword) - Resu
# Mar 24 2002 at 10:17 AM Rating: Default
so train 2-handed with slash is not a bad idea ?
Auto Train?
# Jan 18 2002 at 9:43 AM Rating: Default
I Have a 16 Armsman i want to know why trainer Auto trains me in trust(...iam all 2 hd slash?
RE: Auto Train?
# Jun 03 2003 at 7:39 PM Rating: Default
its because your stupid really, when ur trainer asked you want kind of armsman you wanted to be you must have ansered thrust
Davon Lord of the Black Circle
# Jan 18 2002 at 8:13 AM Rating: Default
What i was wondering is has any body any idea weather iys better to go 2hs or sword and shiels is either style better than the other ???
2-handed-Slashing dilema
# Jan 11 2002 at 1:20 PM Rating: Default
Ok ok... it seems that both skills improve your damage in one way or another.... but i wonder, its the same with the polearms too?
I mean, there are polearms of each kind (Slashing, Thrusting and Crushing)
So i guess that it works the same way with the polearms skill, if u have a Slashing 2-handed weapon or a Slashing Polearm.
If that so, I guess the primary Skill to train is the one of your weapon type(Slashing, Thrusting, etc.) Cuz it will be reflected in future use of 2-handed or polearms.

Even though you'll have to keep in mind that the combat styles (i.e. for slashing) wont work with a slashing 2-handed weapon or polearm.

(please excuse any bad spelling or grammar,I'm not an english-spoke-person)
initiatory weapon
# Jan 10 2002 at 9:20 AM Rating: Default
im almost a lvl 5 pali and would like to know if i get a two handed sword at lvl 5 fro the trainer?
RE: initiatory weapon
# Jan 12 2002 at 6:19 AM Rating: Default
You get a choice of weapons and 2 handed is one of the choices. It is a slashing weapon though.
are polearms considered 2handed
# Dec 31 2001 at 5:25 PM Rating: Default
subject says it all...anyone know?
RE: are polearms considered 2handed
# Jan 25 2002 at 12:40 PM Rating: Default
RE: are polearms considered 2handed
# Feb 03 2002 at 10:27 PM Rating: Default
NO! Polearms are NOT considered 2-hand weapons! The damage output with polearms depends wholly on the the polearm skill (max damage) and then the attack type skill (such as slash) for minimum damage. Putting points into 2-hand if you are using a polearm will do nothing. Just read some of the posts for polearms.
Did you know?
# Dec 01 2001 at 8:02 AM Rating: Default
I have maxed my chants and two handed skill and have put no points into slashing(I use a greatsword) Every now and then, I go back to my trainer and I am givin free training in my slashing skill... so the game recognizes that slashing does have a role to play in two handed skill. I have had my slashing raised I believe 6 ranks.. from1 to 7 now i believe. I am givin a msg saying your trainer automatically trains you in some skills to keep them at the min. What the min and max range is and why they choose to do it this way I do not know. 25th circle Paladin w/25 two handed skill.
RE: Did you know?
# Mar 25 2002 at 7:34 PM Rating: Default
No matter what your base weapon skill, your trainer will give you those points. Mine is Crush, yet I haev 10 points in slash at 37.
# Nov 20 2001 at 4:19 PM Rating: Default
When is the Stratagy Guide coming out? I like the game but they gave us no info and right clicking on spells and skills gives not give us any information on what they are. So we have to play a guessing game as to what and how effective they are. Is this going to improve?
RE: Frustrated
# Nov 20 2001 at 4:27 PM Rating: Default
Prima's Strategy guide is already out, and came out about the same time the game did (with beta information). The info isn't always numerically accurate but it's pretty close. However, there are plenty of sites like Allakhazam's here and CamelotLore ( that give you the same kind of spell/skill info.
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