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Did SE Solve the Housing Shortage?Follow

#1 Oct 04 2016 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
To any of you on Balmung, what's the apartment situation over there?

I'm on Hyperion, which is a midsize/large server, and over here the housing situation seems completely fixed. I just got an apartment yesterday (nearly a week after the patch) and there are tons of apartments left in all areas.

Even better is that our FC mansion is right next to the apartments in the Mists, so all of my FC mates live in the same building. :)

Glad to see this situation has been remedied possibly everywhere except for Balmung! Took long enough, but everyone in my FC seems to be enjoying their new properties.
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#2 Oct 04 2016 at 12:20 PM Rating: Default
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When I last checked most spots were filled up but not 100% filled, so it's more of a band-aid fix for people who weren't in a FC house or for RP/Alt purposes and needed multiple rooms but didn't want to take up all of their FC slots.

So it didn't solve the housing shortage as people still want ACTUAL houses including house less FCs, but it's a band-aid fix for people who just wanted a mog-house so to speak.

Then again, on most servers that weren't Balmung, housing never did have a shortage unless you had a few people/FC buying up the houses to resell, like on Sargatanas lol.
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#3 Oct 04 2016 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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Until there's a way for them to produce unlimited on-demand normal housing, there will always be a shortage.

It's a design flaw in the system that should have been spotted immediately. In fact it's so obvious, I'd say it would have to be impossible for them not to have known this problem would exist before they implemented it.
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#4 Oct 04 2016 at 3:39 PM Rating: Excellent
If there are enough apartments on all servers for everyone, then I consider the matter closed. There's no going back in time and undoing normal housing, and it would be kind of silly just to wipe them out simply because not everyone an have one.

Apartments offer all the benefits with the exception of having a yard to decorate, right?

The only thing that's still an issue if the lack of FC housing, since I don't think a FC can buy an apartment. So far, though, the only real benefit of a FC house is building an airship to go to the Diadem with a pre-formed party -- but nobody goes there, anyway.

Edited, Oct 4th 2016 2:44pm by Thayos
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#5 Oct 04 2016 at 4:47 PM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:
If there are enough apartments on all servers for everyone, then I consider the matter closed.


There's quite a big difference between having an Apartment/FC Room and a House, namely the features and benefits of such between the 2 systems so sadly the problem still persists till they figure out something or move everything into an instance, which would kind of go against the general design they wanted initially but it's the ultimate solution.

Quote:
Apartments offer all the benefits with the exception of having a yard to decorate, right?


Not having a yard (most decorations you end up getting event wise are exterior furnishing, very few have been interior and the new seasonal trees are exterior), limited slots for interior decorating, not having access to a mailbox, not having access to aetherial stands (FC housing) not having access to a workship (quite required for some even casual features like certain buffs/buff ties (III+) certain crafting material etc) very limited space to work with (some people like having "themes" for their decorating, e.g upstairs/main floor/downstairs being themed.)

So aside Diadem access, houses are still much sought after than a singular room. So there's still quite a lot of FCs out there on bigger servers who want a house and NEED a house in order to actually utilize a lot of features for the FC since your points will drain almost instantly if you continually purchase tier II buffs instead of use excess materials to produce tier III+ buffs via company workshop, which doubles as a way to gain quick exp for non-capped crafters and gatherers in your FC.

So as said, the problem is mostly fixed for those FCless because the apt room and FC room are the same thing, just APT costs 200k more.

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#6 Oct 04 2016 at 5:08 PM Rating: Default
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Hio's negativity aside, Balmung still has open Apartments and the housing complaints have dropped down to a trickle. Meanwhile, furniture prices have gone up to the joy of craters (which drowned out the decry on the glamour prisms).

And seeming this was the FIRST WAVE of apartments, people having interior decorating has done a lot.

As far as 'more housing plots' complaint. I find this a funny thing, given this is coming from someone who lauded FFXI, which never had yards to begin with.

This was a very good addition to the housing situation. This will change housing with yards into the premium content it was supposed to be, and help to alleviate the housing concerns for the meanwhile. Of course there will always be demand for more plots - but that will not be addressed anytime soon. Most people, at this point, will wind up settling, even if that upsets a small subset.
#7 Oct 04 2016 at 5:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
Hio's negativity aside


Kind of proof just finding reasons to attack whatever I write, but keep being bitter ;)

No one was being negative.

Quote:
housing complaints have dropped down to a trickle


Meanwhile, housing complaints are still from FCs wanting a house. Which you can't exactly brush off, but that's what happens when you actually interact with more than your little circle on a server, you learn things.

Quote:
Meanwhile, furniture prices have gone up


This is due to cross material usage on new items, namely the aquariums, which caused furniture prices on even 'basic' items to go up, but on balmung there's far more gatherer and crafters than any other servers, maybe not all omni-crafters, but the prices bottomed out now that the initial rush is over.

Here's an example:

Terminus putty, this skyrocketed after the update for a short time which is also used in quite a few outdoor furniture. Why would the outdoor furniture go up in price when APT disallows it and no new housing was added?

Because a common item used was part of a new furniture recipe (aquariums.) Gold Ingots SOARED for a while because they're used in new ilvl250 crafting recipes and also in some 'casual items.' So of course everything went up in price after an update to introduce new crafting recipes, this is how it's always been.

The situation is, the problem is not solved and won't be solved until there's housing for everyone. If they remove "Free Company house" requirement on using things like aetherial wheels and the workshop, FC won't complain as much about wanting a house.

I assume you're just FCless to think the complaints, especially on Balmung, is almost non-existent now because one of the bigger linkshells i'm in on Balmung at this very moment are talking about they hope there's enough housing in Ishgard so their FC can actually snag a house.



Edited, Oct 4th 2016 5:04pm by Theonehio
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#8 Oct 04 2016 at 8:50 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Hio's negativity aside, Balmung still has open Apartments and the housing complaints have dropped down to a trickle.


This is what I've noticed too. This is the first time SE has expanded the housing system without the OFs being bombarded with angry people complaining about how they got shut out (again). Complaints seem to be down to a trickle, and they don't seem to be coming Average Joe Player. Everyone in my FC seems happy to have homes.

I actually sold my house to a FC member and moved into the unofficial FC apartment building. :) Decorated and I'm pretty happy with it!

Edited, Oct 4th 2016 7:51pm by Thayos
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#9 Oct 04 2016 at 11:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Hio, I don't need to find reasons to criticize you on your negativity. You provide them in such ample amounts I can't stand to read your posts for more than a line or two.

I am, in fact, looking for something remotely redeeming when I glance at your posts, however whatever analytical insight you do have is heavily outweighed by the consistent slant you, without fail, always write into your posts.

If it was even just topical, having a singular spin in which your opinions turn upon besides the broadest brush of uniformed criticism - I'd still have a modicum of respect for you. However, there's zero concessions from you. You will spin anything said or done about the game into the negative, and have done little else but bemoan this game the entirety of your tenure here - which baffles the mind on why you remain a part of the community, let alone a paying member of the playerbase.

I've once said this out of concern for you, but now I'm going to be blunt.

Quit.

If not for your own sake then for the others you bring down by your constant negativity. It's long past the point where any previous justification of your remaining in the game would have remained valid in the face of everything you've put down upon. Find other games to play with your friends, ones that meet your standards. It cannot be put any more clearly that this game is not designed around them, and, in fact, has an outspoken design policy contrary to your own philosophy.

The only reasons I can even speculate that you remain run along the themes of addiction and peer pressure - neither of which are healthy for you. And your conduct isn't healthy for others.

So get yourself somewhere you'll be happy already. All you're accomplishing here is spreading misery.

Thayos wrote:


This is what I've noticed too. This is the first time SE has expanded the housing system without the OFs being bombarded with angry people complaining about how they got shut out (again). Complaints seem to be down to a trickle, and they don't seem to be coming Average Joe Player. Everyone in my FC seems happy to have homes.

I actually sold my house to a FC member and moved into the unofficial FC apartment building. :) Decorated and I'm pretty happy with it!


I've the FC household in Mist, from which I only really have any furniture control of the Apartments my alts have on there (my main is a cooperation between myself and my GF as its their 'shared room'). My house in Lavender Beds is meticulously designed to be a story location for roleplay events - and is currently my greatest joy in my whole fashion obsession in the game. And I just got an apartment in Goblet after the rush died down, which I might turn into some sort of custom shop, so I don't have to keep NPCs in my house.

Personally, happy as a clam. I've made out like a bandit when it comes to housing and I darn well appreciate it.

But I keep my ear out on things going on, and right now, housing complaints just aren't there. Today's biggest complaints seem to be focused on the raids being 'too easy' which, honestly, I disagree with as well. They're skill tuned, not gear tuned - like I always wanted. Once my current home crisis is resolved I'll be looking for a static.

But housing? Even if it's a stopgap measure, it was one hell of a stopgap.
#10 Oct 04 2016 at 11:38 PM Rating: Excellent
My static is hoping to start Sophia Ex next week. Just one member needs to get her ilevel up.
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#11 Oct 05 2016 at 1:34 AM Rating: Default
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It's funny to see Hyrist criticize Hio for being negative when Hyrist is the biggest condescending douchebag on these forums, lol. Stop taking yourself so seriously dude.

Anyway I bought an apartment in the Goblet, but I haven't done anything with it yet. The only piece of furniture I have is that Hildebrand painting from the vet rewards.
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#12 Oct 05 2016 at 4:24 AM Rating: Good
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BrokenFox wrote:
It's funny to see Hyrist criticize Hio for being negative when Hyrist is the biggest condescending douchebag on these forums, lol. Stop taking yourself so seriously dude.

Anyway I bought an apartment in the Goblet, but I haven't done anything with it yet. The only piece of furniture I have is that Hildebrand painting from the vet rewards.


I don't take myself as seriously as I take the community, actually. Not that Zam has much of one left, which really is where the social filters just fall off.

I view that it is flatly fair game to turn the scope of improvement upon the group of individuals who believe they're personally above criticism while they can armchair developer, and tear down people who put blood sweat and tears into what they do. Comunity health is as part of the game environment as any UI tool or piece of content, and in games like this can be the make or break point.

Point in case: Our server health.

Balmung and Gilgamesh, our primary unofficial RP server and our secondary RP server with the Primary in unofficial PvP gatherings - are our two largest servers. For all the potential interpersonal dramas it has in and of itself a player-run social tie-in. This is something we created and it greatly impacts the game environment.

So yes, I take debbie downers like Hio a bit seriously, cause they can and have have negative impact overall in that most critical factor.
#13 Oct 05 2016 at 4:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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I suddenly feel like I need reassess my definition of condescending douchebag.
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#14 Oct 05 2016 at 7:38 AM Rating: Excellent
And I need to up my game. I'm coming for you, Hyrist!
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#15 Oct 05 2016 at 9:31 AM Rating: Excellent
BTW Hyrist, I'd love to see pics of your different residential units. Same goes for the rest of you -- even Hio's House of Pain. I'll post pics of my apartment later on... haven't decorated my FC room yet, so I'll leave that out.
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#16 Oct 05 2016 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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Seriha, Thayos. Seriously. You guys are a part of why I am still here. *laugh*

Anyways. I'm game for screenshot sharing. I'll see if I can get some out tonight after tabletop.
#17 Oct 05 2016 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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Theonehio wrote:
The situation is, the problem is not solved and won't be solved until there's housing for everyone. If they remove "Free Company house" requirement on using things like aetherial wheels and the workshop, FC won't complain as much about wanting a house.

This is the one issue that upsets me. As a crafter, I'd really like access to the tier 3 buffs.
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#18 Oct 05 2016 at 12:56 PM Rating: Default
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AngusX wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
The situation is, the problem is not solved and won't be solved until there's housing for everyone. If they remove "Free Company house" requirement on using things like aetherial wheels and the workshop, FC won't complain as much about wanting a house.

This is the one issue that upsets me. As a crafter, I'd really like access to the tier 3 buffs.


Exactly, this is a big reason why FCs want a house because the better buffs you can obtain is gated behind housing, thus no matter what they do until they stop gating things behind "FC housing" there will always be complaints and everything will simply be a band-aid fix.

I'll post pics of my Apothecary/Alchemy themed personal house of one of my alts, since I don't know if my FC leader wants pics of their mansion posted without permission.

http://imgur.com/a/OgeeT
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#19 Oct 06 2016 at 12:14 AM Rating: Decent
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What exactly did they even do to the housing system?

I know they introduced apartments, but that's not really the same thing. From my understanding they aren't really any different from FC private rooms except they aren't tied to a FC (and its house) but cost a little bit more.

Edited, Oct 6th 2016 2:15am by Fynlar
#20 Oct 06 2016 at 3:41 AM Rating: Default
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Just apartment introduction and if you really nitpick, the introduction of the "Aquarium System."

Smaller servers weren't as affected to the point you had people ADVERTISING to server transfer there if you want a house lol so it mostly gave people without an FC or house the ability to have a room to decorate, which people focus on more than the fact there's still a large problem mostly related to gated features requiring housing. FC housing specifically.
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#21 Oct 06 2016 at 5:04 AM Rating: Decent
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It's a matter of priorities.

FC functions, honestly, are cute little additions at best. Aethereal Wheel and Private Airship ventures are the only things that amount to an income of exclusive items above personal housing.

Cross-breeding garden patching and exterior design are really the only things above an apartment from the housing level.

The largest of the complaints, however, was having housing that wasn't dependent on the FC system (And therefore subject to removal by being kicked from an FC) to have. It was repeated over and over again on how FFXI's housing system would have been the obvious solution to this problem - and that's pretty much what we got here.

This isn't so much of a distraction as it addressed what was perceived as the largest issues on people's minds. Small FCs that want houses, or larger ones that did not get access to a plot - still need to get a form of FC housing - but the functions themselves are really not all that attractive - especially as Diadem flopped so hard.

So, sadly, one of my criticisms kinda takes away from this criticism. There's really no true 'FC function' that's broadly attractive right now - even in FC housing. If there was, like say Diadem being what it was hoped to be - there'd be a bit more urgency behind the idea that FCs without houses are jipped on these functions.

The question is, between these two, which should be the higher priority: fixing the housing plot issue for FCs? Or providing content to further value having a housed FC?

My opinion is currently leaning on the former, which this fix did not address. But we already given and idea of the update pipeline - (apartments, ishgardian housing, item limit expansion) and so far things seem to be taking the way they were intended to.

So bluntly - personal housing shortage? Pseudo fixed - anyone who wants their own personal space can have it.

FC function housing - not fixed, twice over as FC housing functioning isn't really lucrative or attractive right now to begin with.

Overall climate of player's feedback - Happy with the apartments, but awaiting further fixes as they were promised down the pipeline.
#22 Oct 06 2016 at 9:18 AM Rating: Excellent
For the casual player, housing is fixed. Everyone can have a space to call their own and decorate as they please.

Some people will always be waiting for a similar expansion of actual houses, but let's be real -- that's never going to happen, or it would have happened by now. SE screwed up and either over-estimated its abilities or under-estimated the demand. Yep, it happened. Time to acknowledge it and move on.

The only thing SE could do to make housing "fair" would be to take away all the houses and put everyone in the apartments, and that would be silly. Just let people keep what they have -- don't waste resources removing something for no real reason.

I'd say the next step would be making FC condos in the apartment buildings... give them a few extra rooms and all the benefits a FC house would have. And why not fully dive into the "apartment" culture and have shared spaces for regular tenants?

Essentially, the apartments are a big reset button for the housing system. They should have just done this initially, but I'm glad they did it now

Edited, Oct 6th 2016 8:27am by Thayos
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#23 Oct 06 2016 at 10:30 AM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:
For the casual player, housing is fixed


I'm fairly sure casual players also join and run free companies too. As I assume the whole "accessibility" argument isn't subjective, there's still quite a lot of benefit to having an FC house that if you happen to run or join a FC that has no housing, you're not getting full use of the FC system. I get what you were trying to say but, I'm fairly sure there's more casual FCs than there are any other kind of focused FCs :p

However, for people who never really seen the benefits of some of the FC housing perks, it makes sense to find it "no big deal", the extra 15 control and craftsmanship is god tier when trying to hit the HQ tier for even patch recipes, especially 3.4's that requires a BASE of 995/955. So people can say "it's just a bonus!" but realistically, they spent so much time and effort (and not to mention resources, resources, resources) pushing "GROUP CRAFTING!" "PERSONALIZED AIRSHIPS!" and a lot of FCs on bigger servers can't even partake in that, even if it's "not important to you it is to others" as a popular saying on ZAM goes but seems to only be said under certain circumstances...

Quote:
I'd say the next step would be making FC condos in the apartment buildings... give them a few extra rooms and all the benefits a FC house would have. And why not fully dive into the "apartment" culture and have shared spaces for regular tenants?


Honestly - Look at the GC Barracks for the Squadron system - There's literally nothing stopping them from having the same kind of system in place for a "workshop" for FC's without a house since all a workshop does is allow you to access a bunch of menus in a pretty interface. The airship is just a cutscene that shows your airship parts together and nothing more, since well, it's not like we actually control it, and the levels and route just calculate your % of which ever item(s) you obtain after 18-75 hours.

Considering the next step yoshida said are "mansions" that's supposedly separate from housing, that's when we'll see if they do anything specific, but for now, there's still a fair bit of stuff tied to FC Estates that remains sought after. Hell, they could mimic the mog garden system and go a step further to completely negate the need of FC housing and they can't hide behind a lore shield either, because these apartments kind of just "popped out of nowhere" so to speak.

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#24 Oct 06 2016 at 10:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm fairly sure casual players also join and run free companies too.


I think you and I are like 99 percent in agreement on this.

When I say housing is fixed for the casual player, I'm not talking about FCs, for which the system is certainly NOT fixed. I'm referring to Average Joe Player who just wants a home -- a place for furnishings, special items, etc., where in-game friends can come and hang out, or where he can go AFK with his favorite music on the orchestrion. That's all most people do with their homes.

I consider FC housing to be a separate issue, but it shouldn't be difficult to address thanks to the apartment infrastructure.
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#25 Oct 06 2016 at 2:27 PM Rating: Good
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As an idea. Apartment structures for free companies could do the trick. Onlu difficult matter would be workshop stuff... bit seriously just hace a public workshop in each apartment building.
#26 Oct 06 2016 at 4:27 PM Rating: Good
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The FC airship content being gated behind housing was a design mistake. I like the idea of FC condos that can house a workshop. You lose the ability to have outdoor decorations but pretty much nothing else. It's a reasonable compromise to let unlucky FCs still have access to all the content they're supposed to have access to (namely the Diadem) but still let SE have their non-dynamic housing system.
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