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Correct me if Im wrong (past and present relic weapon)Follow

#27 Feb 18 2017 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Theonehio wrote:
The problem is, while you're not wrong this is FFXIV - The setup for this game is atrocious so an "alternative" to say a savage weapon at this point in the game's life would mean "Why do the content where you have to push more than 123 when you can get the same if not a better weapon doing far less work?" There would be no reason to touch content that doesn't hand out gear.

With the Zodiac weapons, the amount of work was actually a bit more than just taking your **** into Coil and clearing T5/T9/T13, so that weapon was well deserved to be an alternate you can customize - in 3.x however, the ilvls are quite different and they jump a lot higher, so handing out a 275 alternate would negate creator savage, which yeah would make people who don't touch content happy, but for people who spend more than 3 hours a week on this game you take away one of the few goals this game has, which seems to be ok to take away from other's playstyle but isn't ok if it takes away from your playstyle.

So an alternate weapon can never be equal to a high end weapon unless they SIGNIFICANTLY change the itemization so you can make both well worth your time.

So you do indeed have your alt weapon, you just have to deal with being behind the top weapon because realistically, unless you plan to do harder content in this game you don't need anywhere near the current gear, you realistically only need ilvl245 gear (new dungeons) and ilvl255 weapon at best.



Thats a VERY simple question to answer. It would not at all make doing Creator Savage pointless.? Why because the "uber l33t" hardcore players can get their "uber L33t" weapons in a matter of hours so theyd STILL choose to do that over getting an equally powerful relic whereas us "peasants" who cant get into a Savage part because of all the red tape (i.e Must have experience, must have clear, know fight, No bonus" etc etc groups you see in party finder.. Trust me I would MUCH rather do Savage but thats not an option as because of this games community ppl like me wouldn't even get a chance to TRY..... something player in FFXI NEVER had to face). Could spend 50+ hours solo and still get the same power of weapon.

So tl;dr Hard core players can spend 3-5 hours and get an IL9000 Whereas casuals could spend 50-100 hour solo and get an IL9000 weapon. Thus Creator Savage would still be worth doing (for those who are able) over just getting relic because of the amount of time it would take would be SIGNIFICANTLY shorter.
#28 Feb 18 2017 at 10:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Callinon wrote:
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and thats the ENTIRE argument they SHOULD be identical in IL... the only difference between the two should be their names and looks.. Id also say stats but considering relics stats are customisible anyway so you could always customize them to match Savage stats if you so choose. I cant really call relic an "alternative" to Savage if Savage is still gonna be better than relic for the first 12-24 months until relic FINALLY catches up to match or exceed it.

There should be ways for ppl to get weapons as strong as (not weaker than) Savage weapons on their own that would take a little more work but can be done solo for ppl who CANT get in a Savage party because the community sucks and wont allow them.. not because of their lack of wanting to


I think a much better analogy here would be the difference between going to participate in a game of skill and winning your cereal versus manufacturing it yourself from scratch.

The game of skill, if you're good enough to do it, awards you completed cereal at a high quality.
OR
You can manufacture the individual components of cereal yourself on your own time. It'll take longer, and you'll take a good deal more time to achieve the same quality of cereal, but in the end you can make it exactly the way you want.


The only thing wrong with that example is that the cereal you manufactured is NOT the same quality until 12-24 months later. SO the "other kids" have been eating the good stuff for 1-2 years longer than you. Despite the fact that your method required a LOT more time and effort to do than the other guys
#29 Feb 18 2017 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
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You wrote:
The only thing wrong with that example is that the cereal you manufactured is NOT the same quality until 12-24 months later.

I wrote:
and you'll take a good deal more time to achieve the same quality of cereal


Edited, Feb 18th 2017 11:04am by Callinon
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#30 Feb 18 2017 at 1:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Callinon wrote:
You wrote:
The only thing wrong with that example is that the cereal you manufactured is NOT the same quality until 12-24 months later.

I wrote:
and you'll take a good deal more time to achieve the same quality of cereal


Edited, Feb 18th 2017 11:04am by Callinon


The point I was making is every expansion has multiple Savage trials not just one. or example 3 tiers of Bahamut on ARR.. Relic Never matched the first tier of of Bahamut until the 2nd tier was out. then never matched the 2nd tier until the 3rd tier was out, then never matched 3rd tier until 3rd tier was 3+ months old. So relic really inst the "same quality" until it finally catches up to 3rd tier.

The CORRECT way to make relic the same quality alternative to Bahamut (for example) would be like this.... Tier 2 Bahamut isnt out yet. Good players can get a Bahamut Tier 1 weapon in just a few hours if they get lucky on drops. Whereas relic players can get a weapon the same quality as Bahamut tier 1 (BEFORE TIER 2 comes out) without the necessary skill.... the balance point however is.. While the good players can get a great weapon with only a few hours of work everyone else can get a weapon of equal power but their gonna have to grind for a full 1-2 months to get it. Not grind 1-2 months for a weapon thats only "almost as good" as Tier 1 Bahamut... if thats all youre gonna give me then just scrap the whole Relic progression system and just lemme buy my inferior weapon with Tomestones... at least then I cant dispute the quality of the weapon I got for the work I had to put in to get it.


#31 Feb 18 2017 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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3,737 posts
I think they found a good balance here allowing casual players to work on a long-term project that eventually catches up with the top-end weapons while also allowing the top-end players the chance to have better weapons through most of that process (because what they're doing is more difficult). I understand that you don't agree. My point was trying to help you understand how this is supposed to work and why.

I have my own complaints with the relic system, but none of them are "my weapon isn't as good as the top-end raid weapons." It shouldn't be. I'm not a top-end raider in this game. The fact I can finally get there at the end of the expansion is a nice bonus for sticking with it the whole way through.
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svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#32 Feb 18 2017 at 5:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Callinon wrote:
I think they found a good balance here allowing casual players to work on a long-term project that eventually catches up with the top-end weapons while also allowing the top-end players the chance to have better weapons through most of that process (because what they're doing is more difficult). I understand that you don't agree. My point was trying to help you understand how this is supposed to work and why.

I have my own complaints with the relic system, but none of them are "my weapon isn't as good as the top-end raid weapons." It shouldn't be. I'm not a top-end raider in this game. The fact I can finally get there at the end of the expansion is a nice bonus for sticking with it the whole way through.


Well if anyone is to blame it would be FFXI and how THEY did relics, relic was a LONG grinding process.. that EVERYONE would get.. skilled or otherwise... they just had to take the time and have the dedication to do it. But it wasn't out of reach for ANYONE at all (unlike Savage) and at the end you got a kickass weapon. As such we expect that same thing for the long relic like work we have to do for relic in FFXIV just to get a weapon thats not as good as what we could get off Kirin which might be "harder to do" but takes a million times less time to accomplish
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