I am working on a formular for evaluating value of an item. For now my formular is biased towards late ssraa equiped people where class primary stats (int,wis,str) are loosing importance because impact past 300 is neglieble and people will soon be hitting max of 305/355.
Basic layout of formular is like this so far:
100 * f(stats) * f(resists) * f(hp/mana) - 100
f(stats):
1+sqrt(sta * 2 + classStat)/250
f(hp/mana):
1+(hp*classWeight + mana*classWeight)/200
classWeight(hp)
casters = 40 pct
hybrids = 80 pct
pureMelee = 100 pct
f(resists):
1+(mr+fr+cr+pr+dr)/250
Everything else is ignored for now, which is obviously not satisfying. Obvious area's for improve include but are not limited to: effects, weapon ratios, AC etc.
Also formular doesnt really make sense at lower levels where people strive to raise str,wis and int mainly.
I was wondering if anyone else has struggled with something similar and/or have suggestions for improvements ?
Kind Regards
Aknok
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Item value estimationFollow
An easier way to do it would be to look at your inventory and go hell yeah that better than what i have i'll take it
Bottom line, like it or not people will charge what the buyer is willing to pay. If you're willing to shell out 100k for a fine steel short sword then that's what it's worth.
Nat
Nat
Anonymous
I figured people would be smart enough to figure out usefullness of this, i was obviously wrong so i guess i better explain.
When you are using a fixed cost loot system in your guild, fairness of loot system can be ensured by assigning cosistent costs on loot in raid points, so its not as much for your own benefit in evaluating the usefullness of an item to YOU more a way to ensure that values assigned to loot obtained on raids are consistent.
When you are using a fixed cost loot system in your guild, fairness of loot system can be ensured by assigning cosistent costs on loot in raid points, so its not as much for your own benefit in evaluating the usefullness of an item to YOU more a way to ensure that values assigned to loot obtained on raids are consistent.
Ahhh.... Ok
Loot systems practically never work because
- any jeweler/tailor will most likely take gems/skins instead of gear
- the worth of a quest item can NEVER be valued
- some items are only of worth for certain classes (posion ingredients, spell components etc.)
- the DEMAND can only be evalued at the Bazaar
However I do use such a system to calculate for what I roughly sell low-lvl armor&weapons at the Bazaar myself (but without regarding class) and funny enough - it works ;)
Edited, Mon Jan 19 04:52:26 2004 by Leiany
- any jeweler/tailor will most likely take gems/skins instead of gear
- the worth of a quest item can NEVER be valued
- some items are only of worth for certain classes (posion ingredients, spell components etc.)
- the DEMAND can only be evalued at the Bazaar
However I do use such a system to calculate for what I roughly sell low-lvl armor&weapons at the Bazaar myself (but without regarding class) and funny enough - it works ;)
Edited, Mon Jan 19 04:52:26 2004 by Leiany
Your formula doesn't include any of the following:
1) Rarity of the drop
2) Difficulty of the mob that drops it
3) Which slot the item fits in
4) What classes can wear it
5) Effects (and the other ones you mentioned)
In short, there are a LOT of variables. And I would suggest close to impossible to put into a formula.
1) Rarity of the drop
2) Difficulty of the mob that drops it
3) Which slot the item fits in
4) What classes can wear it
5) Effects (and the other ones you mentioned)
In short, there are a LOT of variables. And I would suggest close to impossible to put into a formula.
Anonymous
Quote:
1) Rarity of the drop
2) Difficulty of the mob that drops it
3) Which slot the item fits in
4) What classes can wear it
5) Effects (and the other ones you mentioned)
2) Difficulty of the mob that drops it
3) Which slot the item fits in
4) What classes can wear it
5) Effects (and the other ones you mentioned)
Replace value with usefullness in my original post.
That makes rarity irrelevant.
That makes difficulty irrelevant.
Whether slot matters is subject to discussion.
Whether classes that can use matters is subject to discussion.
Effects definately matter.
To give you an example, A Vindi BP is a lot more valuable because it is shaman useable than it would be if only plate classes could use it.
Quote:
Replace value with usefullness in my original post.
You seem to be missing the point i refer to my original post it's only usefull if it better than what you have in that slot in which case wtf do you need some dumbass formula, i know an upgrade when i see it and send a tell to the ML when he calls for people to 'send tells if you want <insert item here>'
Quote:
That makes rarity irrelevant.
WRONG!!!!! if you have to kill a lvl 70 mob that drops it as his rare drop it will be more difficult and therefore more expencive than a similar item off a lvl 60 LDoN that can be farmed.
I.E Artifact bejeweled BP vs Vindi BP
Quote:
When you are using a fixed cost loot system in your guild, fairness of loot system can be ensured by assigning cosistent costs on loot in raid points,
or you could use NBG and distribute loot for the betterment of the guild. my guild upgrades the highest lvl's who filter the replaced item downwards. For No Drop it is given to where it will make the biggest impact i.e FT generally to Cleric's ect unless a particular item is requested on the guild board Before the raid.
I, as many, have spent huge amounts of time trying to figure out the value or going rate of items. I camp the bazaar regularily and there is no way you can predict with a formula, how about weight for a monk how does your formula compensate for that?
People here are smart enough to figure out what something is worth without a formula.
How about a class specific piece of gear compared to an All/All.
Recommended level is another thing that greatlyt affect the cost of an item.. look at Defenders Lightblade. What level a weapon procs at. Focus effects and the rarity of that focus effect, and what slot it fits... not in your formula.
Give it up!!! Your formula will be about 400 terms long by the end of it. It is so much easier to look at an item, and having a knowledge of the competing items, base its price. All you need think is, what would I pay for that.
Quote:
I figured people would be smart enough to figure out usefullness of this, i was obviously wrong so i guess i better explain.
People here are smart enough to figure out what something is worth without a formula.
How about a class specific piece of gear compared to an All/All.
Recommended level is another thing that greatlyt affect the cost of an item.. look at Defenders Lightblade. What level a weapon procs at. Focus effects and the rarity of that focus effect, and what slot it fits... not in your formula.
Give it up!!! Your formula will be about 400 terms long by the end of it. It is so much easier to look at an item, and having a knowledge of the competing items, base its price. All you need think is, what would I pay for that.
Anonymous
Quote:
You seem to be missing the point i refer to my original post it's only usefull if it better than what you have in that slot in which case wtf do you need some dumbass formula, i know an upgrade when i see it and send a tell to the ML when he calls for people to 'send tells if you want <insert item here>'
You need it for assigning costs in a fixed cost loot system.
Quote:
or you could use NBG and distribute loot for the betterment of the guild. my guild upgrades the highest lvl's who filter the replaced item downwards. For No Drop it is given to where it will make the biggest impact i.e FT generally to Cleric's ect unless a particular item is requested on the guild board Before the raid.
I was hoping to keep discretionary- vs fixed cost- lootsystems debate out of this. Why do you ask what i need it for first, when you obviously know the answer?(fixed cost loot system) Whether you like discretionary loot systems, bid loot systems or fixed cost loot systems was never the issue.
If you use a fixed cost loot system you need consistent "costs" assigned to items. One way to go about this is to work out the best formular you can, with the amount of work you are willing to put into it and use that as baseline then adjust raid point costs from there. Now whether you accept these premises is entirely up to you, I admit i should have stated that this was the purpose of my original post and for that i do apologize. My original questions still stand.
"Has struggled with something similar and/or have suggestions for improvements ?"
Quote:
Give it up!!! Your formula will be about 400 terms long by the end of it. It is so much easier to look at an item, and having a knowledge of the competing items, base its price. All you need think is, what would I pay for that.
You quoted 1st part of my post may I suggest you read and understand the rest.
Here is a little to test you can take to see if you have understood it:
Is it about PP value?
(if you answered yes to the above you got it wrong. Read posts on this thread again please).
for those of you who insist on discussing one loot system or the other i started a special thread here.
Guys. Clearly, he's trying to come up with an automated way to calculate DKP costs for items dropped in a raid. I can only assume that this anon poster is the same one that posted the other thread on raid loot rules.
Can I make a suggestion? It costs nothing to register an account (you don't need a premium account to post here). You just need a valid email address. That way, we'll know who you are when you post. When two anon posters start going in a thread, it gets really ugly really fast...
Pat is completely right. There are a ton more factors to the "value" of a piece of loot then its stats. This goes double if you're trying to assign DKP to items for raid loot.
First off. Class usability is huge, for a couple of reasons. The vindi BP example is a good one. Even though it has the exact same stats, forget getting this as a MA (which your formula would favor) simply because it's shaman wearable and shamans can make much better use of the regen. Another example would be a 1hb with say 20/25 dam/del (and some stats lets say). That might be a great weapon for a warrior, or ranger, or bard. It may be worth quite a number of points (well, some anyway) since it's got a nice ratio (maybe worth more for rangers since it's *not* super fast). But a paladin could buy a MotFC, with better stats for about 150pp in the bazaar. The drop is completely worthless to him. On the one hand, it's pretty darn useful for other classes, but should they have to pay "high" points since another class gets a similar weapon "for free"?
Put another way, the paladin gets to spend the points he *didn't* have to spend on that weapon on something else. There are a zillion examples of this in EQ.
Also, some items are depricated in value even though they still score high on your formula. As new expansions come out, items that are just as good as stuff that may still drop may be cheap as all heck (like Weighty Polearms). So, should I have to pay any points at all for an item that drops on a raid, but is no better then something I could buy in the bazaar for a couple hundred plat?
Go read my response in your other thread. I just really think you are dreaming up ways to make this game vastly more complex then it needs to be.
Can I make a suggestion? It costs nothing to register an account (you don't need a premium account to post here). You just need a valid email address. That way, we'll know who you are when you post. When two anon posters start going in a thread, it gets really ugly really fast...
Pat is completely right. There are a ton more factors to the "value" of a piece of loot then its stats. This goes double if you're trying to assign DKP to items for raid loot.
First off. Class usability is huge, for a couple of reasons. The vindi BP example is a good one. Even though it has the exact same stats, forget getting this as a MA (which your formula would favor) simply because it's shaman wearable and shamans can make much better use of the regen. Another example would be a 1hb with say 20/25 dam/del (and some stats lets say). That might be a great weapon for a warrior, or ranger, or bard. It may be worth quite a number of points (well, some anyway) since it's got a nice ratio (maybe worth more for rangers since it's *not* super fast). But a paladin could buy a MotFC, with better stats for about 150pp in the bazaar. The drop is completely worthless to him. On the one hand, it's pretty darn useful for other classes, but should they have to pay "high" points since another class gets a similar weapon "for free"?
Put another way, the paladin gets to spend the points he *didn't* have to spend on that weapon on something else. There are a zillion examples of this in EQ.
Also, some items are depricated in value even though they still score high on your formula. As new expansions come out, items that are just as good as stuff that may still drop may be cheap as all heck (like Weighty Polearms). So, should I have to pay any points at all for an item that drops on a raid, but is no better then something I could buy in the bazaar for a couple hundred plat?
Go read my response in your other thread. I just really think you are dreaming up ways to make this game vastly more complex then it needs to be.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
Anonymous
Formula in this case is a waste of time to reach an already easy solution:
Whatever someone is willin to pay.
Whatever someone is willin to pay.
Can someone just lock this thread?
Scholar
24 posts
It was I who posted original post, no longer anon. Interesting points gbaji definately valid concerns, im a bit unsure whether these concerns aren't more of a pro-/con-DKP question.
You also have to take into consideration competing items for that slot. Most mid level druid earrings are hard as heck to sell for a decent amount because every druid would rather get the Xanthe's and the Solstice earrings so selling a earring to compete with them means having to make the price alot lower than they could get the kit for which is pretty cheap anymore. Other items and their rarity effect the prices of alot of items. It's easy to get a good secondary slot item with decent stats cheaply. But the arm slot is hard to fill with a good stat item. So high stat arm items sell for alot beacuse there are only a couple items that are good for that slot in the game. Whereas There are alot of secondary slot items with good stats. So the slot makes a great deal of diffrence.
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