Transgender rightsFollow

I hope they don't have a death drawing class. That would be morbid.

I was a fine arts major (2D) in college so neener neener

I couldn't care less if my kids took Life Drawing classes in college. I did and, really, mechanically staring at and drawing less than idealized specimens of humanity isn't anything to be particularly excited or threatened by.

Edit: Actually, I'd care in that I'd want them to take a smarter college path than fine art

Edited, Mar 28th 2013 8:03pm by Jophiel

Even if there was none, surely you don't really think a lack of clothes removes all potential value from a piece of art...

I said in comparison to a clothed body, scantly if preferred.

Can't speak for Alma, but that you're making a gross (and false) assumption. I'm just curious how being aware of and sensitive to how other people feel about issues like having to share restrooms with people of another sex somehow equates to me being unwilling to allow someone to choose to be a model in a life drawing class (or choose to take the course). That's just a bizarre leap to make IMO.

Look. We have separate male and female restrooms in our society. We can debate endlessly about whether we should, but all I'm doing here is recognizing that we do, and that we do because a large percentage of our population prefers it that way. It's not about what I like or don't like. It's about recognizing how things are, and the likely reasons why they are the way they are, and then explaining to someone who insists that it should be some other way that they're going to have problems convincing the rest of society to go along with their ideas.

And yes, I'm also pointing out to that person (and others) that just because they think their way is better does not mean that most of the rest of the society around them will agree with them. And simply labeling people as mean or evil or bigoted or whatever because they don't agree with you is pretty darned immature and unproductive. As I've stated repeatedly, a transgendered person's discomfort using the "wrong" restroom from their perspective is no more legitimate or important then someone else's discomfort with the transgendered person using the "wrong" restroom. Both are basically one person's own hangups. But they are incompatible hangups, and there are are a lot more people with one than the other.

I'm just aware of that, while some people seem to think there's some absolute moral right or wrong to this issue. There isn't.




Again, I have no clue what you think this means within the context of this conversation. It's not about my comfort. It's about being aware of what makes other people uncomfortable. Ask 1000 parents if they'd be ok with their kid's school having co-ed bathrooms, and somewhat close to 999 of them will say they would not be. And that's what you're dealing with here. Right or wrong, that's what they want (or don't want) and they "win". End of story.

Edited, Mar 28th 2013 8:07pm by gbaji

There is a big difference between me not wanting strangers to see me naked because I am self conscious and someone not wanting another individual to see them naked because of an irrational fear that they are being checked out. Because of my comfort level, I won't shower in a communal shower. I'll wait until I get home. I am not going to request that the ladies locker room be cleared so I can take a shower by myself. If you (general you) are afraid that a scary gay might be in your communal shower, then don't shower there. Shower elsewhere.

I'll also add that I'm willing to bet that a transgender individual who has not yet been able to begin or has not finished their physical transformation would avoid any and all situations where they would be forced to shower in a communal shower. I am not transgender, but I know that they are already self conscious and uncomfortable with their bodies, so I imagine they wouldn't want to enter into a situation where attention is called to it. Communal showers are easy to avoid. Public restrooms less so.

Edited, Mar 29th 2013 12:05am by Belkira

Because it teaches you how humans of any shape or size work, how they move and how to draw them in a realistic way. That doesn't work when you have clothes obscuring things and nobody who is at all serious about his or her art will mind the nudity.

Yeah, I didn't say it was a stellar academic choice. I'd build a time machine to do it all over again but, you know... art major.

Maybe I'll draw a time machine!

I did have a graphic design specialization in there which is moderately more useful although I got wrapped up in the exciting world of career horticulture instead and have never seriously used it

As long as you don't mind dealing with retarded clients, graphic design is a pretty good career, certainly more useful than fine art anyway.

Assuming 48 employees, that would mean you're accommodating 9.6% of one person at that location.

Are you sure you mean 0.2%?