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alex 1 and savage 1Follow
How different are they? Are they the same fight with just more hp, hit harder and enrage timer? Or are they so vastly different that an inexperienced player (notice i only said player and not the entire party is inexperienced) goin in for the first time and not knowing what to expect will cause party to wipe multiple times before winning?
Hm...
Savage 1: Faust is the Casual killer. People going in expecting their: "It's my $12+/month I play how I want!" mentality to let them clear it..they won't even get past the initial Savage 1 DPS check. Since Faust is the same, just higher HP and hits harder..nothing to cover.
Oppressor/0.5: Main difference: On jumps they stay in the in the air for awhile and resins remain on the ground for a fair bit of time. DPS requirement is also higher. The adds you need 4 adds controlled, this too is the big difference. Tanking wise, there's a "loloneshot to add "difficulty"" move called Hypercharged Plasma.
So if your tank is inexperienced, good chance he'll be the dead one more than anyone else. If it's DPS..it's basically the same fight. if it's a healer..you better put on your big boy pants and be prepared to heal T13 levels of healing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co156B4vZm4 - Here's a quick vid I did on my brother's DRK you can kind of see some differences.
Edited, Sep 20th 2015 1:12pm by Theonehio
Savage 1: Faust is the Casual killer. People going in expecting their: "It's my $12+/month I play how I want!" mentality to let them clear it..they won't even get past the initial Savage 1 DPS check. Since Faust is the same, just higher HP and hits harder..nothing to cover.
Oppressor/0.5: Main difference: On jumps they stay in the in the air for awhile and resins remain on the ground for a fair bit of time. DPS requirement is also higher. The adds you need 4 adds controlled, this too is the big difference. Tanking wise, there's a "loloneshot to add "difficulty"" move called Hypercharged Plasma.
So if your tank is inexperienced, good chance he'll be the dead one more than anyone else. If it's DPS..it's basically the same fight. if it's a healer..you better put on your big boy pants and be prepared to heal T13 levels of healing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co156B4vZm4 - Here's a quick vid I did on my brother's DRK you can kind of see some differences.
Edited, Sep 20th 2015 1:12pm by Theonehio
The way they described the raiding for Alexander was that they designed the Savage fight and then took out mechanics to make the normal-mode fight. They also lowered the numbers across the board substantially.
Hio's right about Faust. His entire purpose in life to say "you must do THIS much dps to ride." Basically if your raid can't do at least 6000 dps over a 2.5 minute period of time, you cannot Savage.
As for Oppressor, yeah... the big changes are the resin bombs now leave actual resin, you have to deal with 4 missiles instead of 2, and the jump phases come with resin bombs and different landing patterns than Normal. There's also a fairly strict dps check going on. Basically you get three jumps and then he blows up. Throw in a tank buster just because.
Hio's right about Faust. His entire purpose in life to say "you must do THIS much dps to ride." Basically if your raid can't do at least 6000 dps over a 2.5 minute period of time, you cannot Savage.
As for Oppressor, yeah... the big changes are the resin bombs now leave actual resin, you have to deal with 4 missiles instead of 2, and the jump phases come with resin bombs and different landing patterns than Normal. There's also a fairly strict dps check going on. Basically you get three jumps and then he blows up. Throw in a tank buster just because.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
Well ppl claim t1-5 back when it was new, was harder than alex savage, but even though i didnt do t1-5 when it was new. (I still havent beaten t5 w/o being carried, but i havent tried too either im sure doing it at 50 in my il135 set would be easy), i dont see how mechanic wise t1-4 (notice i didnt say 5), woukd be harder than any floor of savage.
There was no stand here and move to specific spots when necesary or you will die, or any kill adds in this specific spot mechanics in t1-4, so by comparison savage sounds way more complicated thus i dont see how anyone could call it easier than t1-4.
But who knows savage may just sound hard reading about it but actually doing it is quite simple to understand after 1-2 attempts. I mean when coil came out it was i,timidating (i still wont try to df t5-13) i was afraid of goin in and sucking horribly compared to everyone else, yet for some reason with alex normal i never had that fear and actually doing it was a joke, none of rhose fights were difficult in any way shape or form. I was hoping savage would be the same just with more hp lol
There was no stand here and move to specific spots when necesary or you will die, or any kill adds in this specific spot mechanics in t1-4, so by comparison savage sounds way more complicated thus i dont see how anyone could call it easier than t1-4.
But who knows savage may just sound hard reading about it but actually doing it is quite simple to understand after 1-2 attempts. I mean when coil came out it was i,timidating (i still wont try to df t5-13) i was afraid of goin in and sucking horribly compared to everyone else, yet for some reason with alex normal i never had that fear and actually doing it was a joke, none of rhose fights were difficult in any way shape or form. I was hoping savage would be the same just with more hp lol
Yeah back in the day Coil 1-5 is harder than Savage in the idea that overall, it was more of a test of your jobs and how well you flow with your group. Alex 3 Savage is similar. 4 is just a mess. But newer content replaced difficulty with "shovel as much damage down your throat as possible". Mechanically, the hardest part of Alex 1 savage is getting resins properly placed as that's the "hardest" part of it. Alex 2 Savage is still the trash pull type boss fight..hardest part is meeting the dps check and if your mario karter actually knows what they're doing.
So in it's initial run, Coil 1-5 was very tough as you couldn't come close to even outgearing it and Turn 2 was make or break for many groups (first true dps check of 2.0) then Turn 4 was the wall for many groups.
Savage isn't a walk in the park but in terms of difficulty...it's more like:
You see that train? Go stand in front of it and hope your healer can keep you alive, meanwhile you 4 people? Go try to put a dent in the train with these toothpicks.
Coil equivillent:
You see that train? You don't just stand in front of it, you have to focus on other mechanics relating to the boss (Alexander bosses largely aren't boss related mechanics) So instead of getting railroaded by the train over and over like in Savage, there's far more **** to do in coils. Turn 5 and 9 are beautifully designed even if they're on the easy side (both have instant death mechanics which is what I hate most) but for difficulty? It's all in how YOU perform your role with others. Turn 6-8..those had difficulty and are harder than savage in simple terms.
Savage is just the version the battle guy creates first. They strip out mechanics and requirements for the "launch version". Alex 3 savage for example is an -amazing- wall with how much **** they changed for the story mode.
Edited, Sep 20th 2015 5:11pm by Theonehio
So in it's initial run, Coil 1-5 was very tough as you couldn't come close to even outgearing it and Turn 2 was make or break for many groups (first true dps check of 2.0) then Turn 4 was the wall for many groups.
Savage isn't a walk in the park but in terms of difficulty...it's more like:
You see that train? Go stand in front of it and hope your healer can keep you alive, meanwhile you 4 people? Go try to put a dent in the train with these toothpicks.
Coil equivillent:
You see that train? You don't just stand in front of it, you have to focus on other mechanics relating to the boss (Alexander bosses largely aren't boss related mechanics) So instead of getting railroaded by the train over and over like in Savage, there's far more **** to do in coils. Turn 5 and 9 are beautifully designed even if they're on the easy side (both have instant death mechanics which is what I hate most) but for difficulty? It's all in how YOU perform your role with others. Turn 6-8..those had difficulty and are harder than savage in simple terms.
Savage is just the version the battle guy creates first. They strip out mechanics and requirements for the "launch version". Alex 3 savage for example is an -amazing- wall with how much **** they changed for the story mode.
Edited, Sep 20th 2015 5:11pm by Theonehio
Yeah I was really surprised how different AS3 was when I saw a video of that. The normal mode version of that fight is seriously made of gumdrops and rainbows in comparison. AS4 is kind of "more of everything," but that fight was actually pretty complex even in normal.
I'm not sure a direct comparison to T1-5 is really reasonable as those weren't designed with two difficulties in mind. T5 is a tricky fight mostly because it cannot be outgeared. You have to do the mechanics and you have to do them right and your gear can go f itself because nobody cares about it. The equivalent to that (if you want an equivalent) is probably AS3.
I'm not sure a direct comparison to T1-5 is really reasonable as those weren't designed with two difficulties in mind. T5 is a tricky fight mostly because it cannot be outgeared. You have to do the mechanics and you have to do them right and your gear can go f itself because nobody cares about it. The equivalent to that (if you want an equivalent) is probably AS3.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
We just FINALLY cleared T8 as a group tonight, 60 uncapped.
The mechanics in 2nd Coil are still no joke. Stuff that oneshot you at ilvl 90 cap will still oneshot you at iLvl 180.
The mechanics in 2nd Coil are still no joke. Stuff that oneshot you at ilvl 90 cap will still oneshot you at iLvl 180.
Catwho wrote:
We just FINALLY cleared T8 as a group tonight, 60 uncapped.
The mechanics in 2nd Coil are still no joke. Stuff that oneshot you at ilvl 90 cap will still oneshot you at iLvl 180.
The mechanics in 2nd Coil are still no joke. Stuff that oneshot you at ilvl 90 cap will still oneshot you at iLvl 180.
Like the walls of regret and divebombs and DDR missles.
Final Coil uncapped is still no joke..it's like they designed it with 60 cap in mind. T13 still can floor you even if you have 22k HP with Dark Mind up.
Edited, Sep 20th 2015 7:06pm by Theonehio
Well its a good thing theres surprisingly nothing I want in Alex Savage 4 (no weapons, no body armor and no weapon upgraded as by the time Im probably on that the new relic will be out and all ALWAYS choose that over something that just drops from a boss fight... even if it is a mere 5 ILs weaker).
So as long as I can learn to Handle AS1, 2 and 3 then Im good.. ill still of course wanna complete 4 at least once just for completions sake (as Im sure theres an achievement or some kinda cut scene/quest involved... otherwise then just like Savage coil.. I wont bother)
So as long as I can learn to Handle AS1, 2 and 3 then Im good.. ill still of course wanna complete 4 at least once just for completions sake (as Im sure theres an achievement or some kinda cut scene/quest involved... otherwise then just like Savage coil.. I wont bother)
BTW mechanicswise whats harder? Alex Savage or Ravanna EX?Because I actually found Rav to be difficult whereas Alex according to the post here is just "make sure your DPS is strong enough to kill whatever youre fighting before it enrages" and well Rav requires a bit more than that
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
BTW mechanicswise whats harder? Alex Savage or Ravanna EX?Because I actually found Rav to be difficult whereas Alex according to the post here is just "make sure your DPS is strong enough to kill whatever youre fighting before it enrages" and well Rav requires a bit more than that
See, you're asking "What's harder" but that's a really nebulous concept. Different people find different things harder.
Ravana EX has numerically more mechanics than AS1. I would call it a more complex fight, but not necessarily harder. AS1 has a stricter dps and healing requirement than Ravana EX, does that make it harder? It depends on whether you find tight rotations while dealing with a few mechanics or tighter mechanics more difficult.
They're both scripted fights, so they can both be memorized, but some people aren't good at that, so maybe that makes a fight harder for you.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
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