I just glanced over this topic and noticed that SE is working on a beginner hall. It seems to be a system that players can work on their mechanics and other stuff. It sounds really cool. My question here is actually two.
1.What kind of incentives could be implemented other than just practicing for improving?
2.What would you add or like to be implemented in this system to make it worthwhile?
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/3ufd5r/game_watch_interview_with_yoship_minor_news/
http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/daragapugapu/imgs/4/8/48560049.png
I would like to see actual dungeon sequences along with enemies from those dungeons in the beginner halls. With pop-ups or highlights showing when key intervals are coming up and a pro hint letting you know the best time to activate a skill or move out of the fire during that interval, a highlighted floor with safe zones and danger zones during various ground markers, and a score determined by how well you handle each section of a key interval.
If I was SE I would watch Mortal Kombat X and sports games like Madden or NBA2K for execution/combo tutorials if they add little video segments before each key interval showing appropriate execution. And I would use a PGR type kudos system for rewarding skillful execution during real dungeons and beginner halls.
http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=1447257488268301773&h=50&p=2#73
What is that about 4 man raids?
Let me know what you think..
Edited, Nov 29th 2015 2:15pm by sandpark
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More 'borrowed' mechanics from that other MMO...
It could be used as an alternative content gate for accessing certain content - defeat trial x to unlock dungeon/raid x
It could also be used by players as a sort of gear/skill check when forming groups for content - LF1M trial 12 healer for [insert content here]
It could grant gear, glamour, minions or mounts(or all of the above) on completion - achievements, ect.
I don't like the name. If this is only meant for brand new players with no experience then it's OK I guess, but it sounds like it's meant to improve players who already have a grasp of the basics. They're not really touching on what it really is that keeps casual players casual until the very end when they mention 4 man raids.
Everyone can see the floor light up so they know where they can't stand. The safe zones are usually delegated by the group leader so they're already told where to be when they're not where they're not supposed to be. The only thing players really need to improve on is execution. To improve execution takes practice. Practice takes time... and that is what casual players don't have.
It could be used as an alternative content gate for accessing certain content - defeat trial x to unlock dungeon/raid x
It could also be used by players as a sort of gear/skill check when forming groups for content - LF1M trial 12 healer for [insert content here]
It could grant gear, glamour, minions or mounts(or all of the above) on completion - achievements, ect.
I don't like the name. If this is only meant for brand new players with no experience then it's OK I guess, but it sounds like it's meant to improve players who already have a grasp of the basics. They're not really touching on what it really is that keeps casual players casual until the very end when they mention 4 man raids.
Everyone can see the floor light up so they know where they can't stand. The safe zones are usually delegated by the group leader so they're already told where to be when they're not where they're not supposed to be. The only thing players really need to improve on is execution. To improve execution takes practice. Practice takes time... and that is what casual players don't have.
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream
HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free
cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
FilthMcNasty wrote:
More 'borrowed' mechanics from that other MMO...
It could be used as an alternative content gate for accessing certain content - defeat trial x to unlock dungeon/raid x
It could also be used by players as a sort of gear/skill check when forming groups for content - LF1M trial 12 healer for [insert content here]
It could grant gear, glamour, minions or mounts(or all of the above) on completion - achievements, ect.
I don't like the name. If this is only meant for brand new players with no experience then it's OK I guess, but it sounds like it's meant to improve players who already have a grasp of the basics. They're not really touching on what it really is that keeps casual players casual until the very end when they mention 4 man raids.
Everyone can see the floor light up so they know where they can't stand. The safe zones are usually delegated by the group leader so they're already told where to be when they're not where they're not supposed to be. The only thing players really need to improve on is execution. To improve execution takes practice. Practice takes time... and that is what casual players don't have.
It could be used as an alternative content gate for accessing certain content - defeat trial x to unlock dungeon/raid x
It could also be used by players as a sort of gear/skill check when forming groups for content - LF1M trial 12 healer for [insert content here]
It could grant gear, glamour, minions or mounts(or all of the above) on completion - achievements, ect.
I don't like the name. If this is only meant for brand new players with no experience then it's OK I guess, but it sounds like it's meant to improve players who already have a grasp of the basics. They're not really touching on what it really is that keeps casual players casual until the very end when they mention 4 man raids.
Everyone can see the floor light up so they know where they can't stand. The safe zones are usually delegated by the group leader so they're already told where to be when they're not where they're not supposed to be. The only thing players really need to improve on is execution. To improve execution takes practice. Practice takes time... and that is what casual players don't have.
That looks to be more of a mini game thing separate from world content. I hope this system is something you can practice in real instanced copies of the real dungeons except in this system npc fill out the rest of the party. And it gives you pointers on your job in this particular dungeon in particular circumstances. Add a kudos like system for rewarding skillful execution outside the training zone and have the training dungeons themselves show you how to get good scores or let you practice getting good scores so when you enter the real dungeon with a group, you have a deep grasp of the fundamental mechanics and execution.
The red and group leaders tell players what to do currently, but when it is the players first few runs, bad internet, <insert other excuse>, the drama of being in a group ensues and some parties kick members or split during the learning process for the newbie. If time is what is preventing a system from letting casuals practice pre- hand and not waste others time. Maybe SE should let us choose which sections of dungeons we want to practice on, have a pause and rewind feature, until we get a portion of a circumstance down pat, then swap to other trouble areas. Of course if this is mini game type stuff or in separate out of context areas, nothing I am saying makes sense unless a player wants to spend time and be really proficient.
sandpark wrote:
That looks to be more of a mini game thing separate from world content.
It's not a mini-game. You talk to an NPC and get ported to an instance. Talk to another NPC inside the instance to select a trial and it starts. For the initial trials the NPC will speak to you telling you what to expect as the mobs spawn in, but there's no hand holding. It's more along the lines of "You need to keep this mob from healing it's allies" kinda thing. You're on your own for devising the strategy.
It's just my opinion, but what you're asking for is redundant. Again if it's going over the basics for new players in low level dungeons that's fine, but even those dungeons aren't difficult enough to really warrant tutorials as deep as you're suggesting. If it's for level-capped players then, well... you shouldn't need a tutorial to teach you how your job works. You discuss the overall strategy with your group and you adapt your own playstyle to support that. You're not gonna get that from a tutorial with NPCs.
Ultimately we're still staring the same obstacle in the face even after the tutorial, and that's execution. Wipes happen for two reasons:
1) You or someone in your group did something they weren't supposed to do
or
2) You or someone in your group didn't do something they were supposed to...
Higher difficulty raiding will always require perfect or near perfect execution. I've made mistakes that have wiped raids and it wasn't because I didn't understand a mechanic or because I was unsure how to deal with something. I simply didn't do what I was supposed to do. No amount of tutorials telling me what I already knew would have saved me.
I just feel like the time making tutorials is a waste. There's no penalty for practicing inside the instance other than time, but you're sacrificing that whether you're in a raid or in the beginner's hall. If you're worried about wasting other people's time, you need to find a group of people on your level who are also learning.
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream
HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free
cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
Quote:
I just feel like the time making tutorials is a waste. There's no penalty for practicing inside the instance other than time, but you're sacrificing that whether you're in a raid or in the beginner's hall. If you're worried about wasting other people's time, you need to find a group of people on your level who are also learning.
There's also a legitimate argument to be made here that with FFXIV's barebones dev team, doing this actually does take time away from doing something else.
For most games I'd argue that point, but FFXIV really does seem to be developed by like 5 guys in a room, so when they're spending time doing something like this, they're not doing something better.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
I just feel like the time making tutorials is a waste. There's no penalty for practicing inside the instance other than time, but you're sacrificing that whether you're in a raid or in the beginner's hall. If you're worried about wasting other people's time, you need to find a group of people on your level who are also learning.
There's also a legitimate argument to be made here that with FFXIV's barebones dev team, doing this actually does take time away from doing something else.
For most games I'd argue that point, but FFXIV really does seem to be developed by like 5 guys in a room, so when they're spending time doing something like this, they're not doing something better.
All the more reason I said stuff like LoV and such are a waste of development time in major patches. Sub patches like .05/08/15 etc? Sure why not, give us something to do. If you're hurting that much on staff members while ignoring the XI team with equally if not even less team members have been doing quite a bit...start focus firing your team on important content design and features first and add "side stuff" later even though "most players" seem to care more for the "end game is glamour".
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