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Huh? (article about anima weapons)Follow

#52 Jan 05 2016 at 8:47 PM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:
Are you still not understanding plain English?

You should ask the man in the mirror.
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cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#53 Jan 06 2016 at 2:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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You should ask the man in the mirror.


Unless you live in my mirror, that would be kind of pointless.

Edited, Jan 6th 2016 12:14am by Thayos
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#54 Jan 06 2016 at 8:12 AM Rating: Default
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I think a problem I have with some of this argument and I'll use what I read earlier as an example:

How can one have a static in Destiny without doing one of the following AT MINIMUM:

-Decided one day to play the game, played with a group of people you ended up liking and working well with
-Communicated you'd like to play with each other again and decided on a day and time and for however long.

Why is that impossible in XIV? If your responsibilities prevents you from dedicating time, ok, but how does said responisbilities take a rain check to allow you to static in another game?

All that sounds to me is XIV simply isn't a good enough game to warrant your decision on forming a static in it. I probably have the more hectic of a work schedule being on call so my hours can be anywhere from 2 hours a day to working 2 days straight and I still managed to get through all of the game's content just fine and even part of a static since it's really not hard to find one IF you so choose to want a static.

Not that any content in XIV needs a static of course.
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#55 Jan 06 2016 at 9:56 AM Rating: Decent
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I've probably put in less play time than most people who are still around these forums, yet I was still able to muster enough willpower to get into groups and get through some of the more difficult content in the game. I don't know if it makes XIV a bad game per se. It does stand out to me that people who I know to hold a higher opinion of the game than I aren't even willing to invest as much(read: little) time.

People are here asking the developers to spend more of their time developing content that takes up less of their own time. It only leaves the impression that people don't actually want to play XIV. Maybe it's just me, but washing dishes is a small price to pay for eating a delicious, filling meal. The way people talk about the effort required to enjoy content in XIV... you'd think they just toss their dishes away when they're finished eating Smiley: lol
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#56 Jan 06 2016 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
Like I said before, it's all about having content that is reasonably doable with very limited playtime. In Destiny you can cover a ton of ground in a few hours per week. In XIV, not so much, thanks to how raids are designed. Even with a static, that is barely enough time to learn even certain stages of many fights. And players with no real connection to others are flaky as hell.

It isn't about desire. It's about poor ROI for someone as busy as me.
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#57 Jan 06 2016 at 2:29 PM Rating: Good
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I never completed Coil. I'm stuck at T9, and that wasn't because I was "bad", simply because I hated its instadeath mechanics. It took me quite a bit to finish T5 back then, since my limited playtime prevents me to have a FC or a static. Add the fact that the Japanese tactics for Coil are quite different from the "known" ones (mostly for placements, for example Twintania's neurolink placements are completely different) and that when I started most of the people was in the farm phase, and you have the full picture.

FFXIV is too punishing for mistakes in certain battles - and I have to add I managed to pass the other coil levels after a bit of trial and error - if you ***** up, there's no way you can recover. While I was interested in the story of Coil, the effort simply wasn't worth it, especially since winning T5 after dozens of tries was just a relief, not an accomplishment.
Just to make a comparison with XI, in the final RoV battle of FFXI I went in not extremely geared (i119 AF, a few Delve stuff and Priwen), in four with only one member being in high level gear and with 2 support trusts . I was oneshotted at least a couple times since we went in blind and the fight went on forever - but we recovered and won in the end with half of the party dead and the healer with only 6 HP. Something like this is totally impossible with XIV and its checks.
So, since the gear doesn't interest me at all, why do I have to bother in doing it?
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#58 Jan 06 2016 at 4:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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I love those type of fights where things go wrong, or you are inexperienced so you are not sure how to tackle some parts of the fights and you end up winning with a few people down etc. I wish there was more of that.
#59 Jan 06 2016 at 5:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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I love those type of fights where things go wrong, or you are inexperienced so you are not sure how to tackle some parts of the fights and you end up winning with a few people down etc. I wish there was more of that.


Totally, I miss that too.

I was actually JUST reminiscing with Pikko about the good times in our CoP static. We had such an unusual lineup -- nin, rdm, rdm, whm, bst, thf -- and we still found ways to win. We just had to be a lot more creative, because the conventional strategies didn't always work with our party makeup. We had to get really technical and creative with our job abilities, kiting when needed and really making efforts to spread out healing duties. When we needed more DPS, we'd do double chainspells and time benedictions with convert. It was always an awesome feeling when our strategy would finally break through.

Yup, good times.
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#60 Jan 06 2016 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Belcrono wrote:
I love those type of fights where things go wrong, or you are inexperienced so you are not sure how to tackle some parts of the fights and you end up winning with a few people down etc. I wish there was more of that.


For sure. Those are the best fights.
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#61 Jan 06 2016 at 7:36 PM Rating: Excellent
These fights can't happen now though because of the battle/raid design. That's the result of heavy jump-rope mechanics that minimize class knowledge/job abilities while emphasizing memorizing scripts. That's also why these hardcore raids all but require a static (unless you have a ton of extra time to burn in pickup parties).

It's a shame, too. Even though I'm not a fan of the raid design, I'd still like to realistically be able to do them.

I think there's a lot of potential in the concept of hardcore four-man dungeons. It would be much more feasible to coordinate schedules with just three other people, and through the course of a dungeon I'm sure SE could find more ways to test players' abilities.
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#62 Jan 06 2016 at 9:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Like I said before, it's all about having content that is reasonably doable with very limited playtime.

I have a few things for everyone to consider, not just you, but let's look at the numbers first. According to studies done on the patterns of gamers recently:

10% of the study plays MMOs for 10 hours or less per week.

28% play for 30 hours or more per week.

The average WoW player(everyone, not just those from the study) spends over 20 hours a week in-game.

Several people here have testified that you can clear difficult content in XIV on 4-6 hours a week.

With those things in mind, I'm curious...

1) What exactly constitutes 'limited play time'?
and
2) With players already complaining about the lack of content and/or it's longevity, how do you reduce the amount of time that content lasts and not further agitate the player base?

Again, it's not that I don't have any sympathy for players with less time to spend. I'm just conscious that we're the minority here and not the majority. I'm not approaching this problem from 'I am the average gamer so catering to me is catering to the majority' mentality.

The fact is that the typical gamer spends far more time than I do playing and I've still been able to do many things with MY limited time. I'm not some godlike player who carries others through content I want cleared. I only attribute my achievements more to being willing to concentrate my effort into doing things I think I would enjoy doing.

I guess it just bothers me that your suggestion does remedy the situation for the minority(which many of us here are a part of), but doesn't even recognize the overarching problem. Not sure whether I feel it's worse to see it coming and say ********** the majority" or to just play ignorant, but neither of those are viable solutions.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#63 Jan 06 2016 at 10:56 PM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:
I think there's a lot of potential in the concept of hardcore four-man dungeons. It would be much more feasible to coordinate schedules with just three other people, and through the course of a dungeon I'm sure SE could find more ways to test players' abilities.


This simply further kills the possibility of better designed 8+ man content since as proven by Diadem, give the "easier" option and "what takes the least amount of work" people will take it thus why do 8 man raids when you can get the same or better rewards doing 4 man? And statistically speaking - it's far easier to coordinate schedules of 8+ people if you're on a server with an actual population.

Quote:
1) What exactly constitutes 'limited play time'?
and
2) With players already complaining about the lack of content and/or it's longevity, how do you reduce the amount of time that content lasts and not further agitate the player base?


I'm curious about this too because no matter how you slice it, the ONLY people who ever dump 10+ hours a day let alone a week are those trying to gun for bragging rights on "World First."

And yeah, even in unofficial parses on the lodestone and server activity (Usually by the Japanese) people spend more than enough time to do get things done, if they choose to.
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#64 Jan 06 2016 at 11:03 PM Rating: Good
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Depends on what constitutes "things done". Gear for me isn't worth the effort of any EX, Savage or Diadem content, since it's "only" for the progression.
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#65 Jan 06 2016 at 11:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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This simply further kills the possibility of better designed 8+ man content since as proven by Diadem, give the "easier" option and "what takes the least amount of work" people will take it thus why do 8 man raids when you can get the same or better rewards doing 4 man?


I don't agree with this.

Different types of endgame definitely reduces the number of people doing eight-man raids, because people who enjoy other things are more likely to do those things, leaving less time for raid groups. But why is that a bad thing? People should get to participate in the things they enjoy. Hardcore FCs with people who prefer complex raid battles will still do the hardcore raids, and people with more hectic schedules and/or smaller in-game social networks will gravitate toward four-man dungeons.

And if it's really that big of a problem -- if so many people would prefer hardcore four-man dungeons that it kills raiding -- then the problem isn't the dungeons.

As for limited time, it could be one of two things (or both):

1) A person can only play very few hours per week.

2) A person can play several hours per week, but at very unpredictable times. <--- That's me.

For example: This week, I played a lot on Monday night, then last night (technically today) from like midnight to 1 a.m., and now it's 9:45 and I'll probably play until around 11:30 p.m. Tomorrow I don't really have anything planned, so I'll probably play earlier in the evening. Fridays are always iffy for me; in addition to doing things with the wife/friends, I'm also a freelance reporter and often cover Friday night sporting events. Weekends are also difficult to predict until the days actually arrive; I usually have several hours available to play, but between longer workouts, going out to breakfast (which can happen anywhere from 9 a.m. to 2 p.m.) and/or nighttime activities, I just never know when I'll be at my keyboard.

I've also been sick for the past nine days, and I haven't been running because of that. If I were well, then I'd be doing a long workout tomorrow after work to make up for being so busy the past two days, so I wouldn't be online tomorrow much, either. As I said before, I take fitness very seriously, and not just because I enjoy running. For me, fitness is something I never let fall by the wayside, just like how I always brush my teeth even when I'm feeling lazy.

This week was not particularly more or less busy than usual; that's how things go. That's what I justifiably say I have "limited playtime" in regards to being in a static.


Edited, Jan 6th 2016 9:57pm by Thayos
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#66 Jan 07 2016 at 2:44 AM Rating: Excellent
That's the main thing with an 8 man static, it HAS to be consistent. Otherwise, people get fed up and you're constantly looking for new replacements and starting back at square one month after month. When these raids release, if you want to make progress, you're looking at 3 hour blocks, 3 times a week for the most part if you want to progress. Then you factor in someone's always late, or something else came up you couldn't control, you're probably closer to 4 hours. That's 12 hours a week minimum needed for raiding alone.

Sure, you COULD set aside 1-2 nights for 1-2 hours, but it would take forever to progress something (provided you started raiding from release of said raid). You can get away with the less time once strategies are out and your ilvl is significantly higher than the initial groups were geared with.

I also think gamers do set aside quite a bit of time for gaming, most just don't want to spend it on ONE game for weeks on end. As for Desitny, back in March, only 19% of it's players had completed a raid, so the game has the same issue, not that many players are taking part in end game. It at least only requires 6 players, has supported voice chat, and requires less memorization and more actual skill. If they straight up introduced matchmaking on ALL raids, I think the success rate would be higher than the devs think.
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#67 Jan 07 2016 at 2:45 AM Rating: Good
Hurray, double post.

Edited, Jan 7th 2016 3:59am by Montsegurnephcreep
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#68 Jan 07 2016 at 7:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
That's the main thing with an 8 man static, it HAS to be consistent. Otherwise, people get fed up and you're constantly looking for new replacements and starting back at square one month after month. When these raids release, if you want to make progress, you're looking at 3 hour blocks, 3 times a week for the most part if you want to progress.

It's being done 2x2 and 2x3 Montsegurnephcreep. 3x3 is considered standard these days, but that's also another argument for 'you already knew what you were getting yourself into'.

As far as raid size, shrinking it only emphasizes the importance of execution. It's easier to retain difficulty designing a 20 man raid that can still be cleared with a few players dead than it is for a 5 man raid. That is to say, it's still difficult for 18 players to clear a 20 man encounter than it is for 3 players to clear a 5 man. You could theoretically get by with making attempts if 2 out of your 20 raiders can't make it one day. If 2 of 5 people don't show then your raid is dead, people get fed up... and as you said you're back to square one.

Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
As for Desitny, back in March, only 19% of it's players had completed a raid, so the game has the same issue, not that many players are taking part in end game. It at least only requires 6 players, has supported voice chat, and requires less memorization and more actual skill. If they straight up introduced matchmaking on ALL raids, I think the success rate would be higher than the devs think.

I can't really speak on Destiny because i never bothered with it. I've been playing the same maps in BFBC2 for years and it's different every time I play. Since the variance comes from the players you face rather than static objectives, it seemed pointless to subscribe to a game like that. Maybe I'll have to do some research and try to understand what about it warrants the sub fee, but I wasn't really interested in it beyond hearing that.

I will say that players are largely against matchmaking for difficult content. Personally I'd much rather form my own group than be placed in one with the increased potential for trolling and poor players. That's just more wasted time.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
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