I need to make a heartfelt and sincere apologyFollow

/sigh



Tonight, not feeling well, and a bit sick, I was logged in for what I expected to be just a short while.

A linkshell member who was partied in Onzozo told us that Ose had spawned.

One member of my static party really wants to get the Assault Jerkin, and so all of us (from the party, all LS members) went in a hurry from Jeuno to Onzozo to try and grab him.


Just as we were about to reach the area where he was, we were told that an EXP party who was leveling there had claimed him.

When we arrived on the scene, we saw that the party included some people we knew and had made friends with while working together to do Windurst Rank 6 missions; namely Shari (BLM) and Skellington (PLD).

If anyone was going to end up having beaten us to the claim, at least it was people that we felt some kinship with.
While dissapointed, we at least felt good about that fact.

They seemed to be doing pretty well, but as the battle wore on, this level 63 party started losing the battle.
We spoke in party about what to do.
We are not callous or heartless people, however, this is a notorious monster, and two important elements apply.


First, I am told that there is a general convention that you do not assist or heal other people who have engaged a notorious monster.

The idea behind this is, apparently, that the people chose to take the risk, and the risk is losing. You cannot expect others to help you; that is what I am told.

The second issue is that this is... well, a notorious monster, and if members of our party tried to cure members of their party, our healers could take aggro from Ose and we would be unable to defend ourselves in any way.

We're only 3 levels higher than this other party. We can Kill Ose without a problem, but none of us could stand up to his aggro without fighting back, and live.


Eventually, Davenger, their RDM died.
He was their party's main healer, and it became clear then that they were going to lose.
Skellington, the PLD, fell, and Sharkky the THF, and Shari, and Akihisa the SAM and Sakari the BRD.

When their party had been sadly wiped out, our WAR claimed Ose and we fought him.
Our WAR acted quickly with provoke, because if he hadnt, another THF who was there, alone, already wearing an Assault Jerkin, would have claimed him.


Watching this party die before us, especially one that contained people we felt a kinship with from previously working together, was very uncomfortable.

We really didn't know what else to do, though.


We killed Ose (and a surprise link), and he did not drop the jerkin.
After the fight was over, our WHM and RDM Raised(II) everyone in their party.


It was during this time, as the rest of us useless melees were standing there watching our mages raise this party, that I, evidently, did something which was misconstrued by some of the party members and taken as a deliberate insult.

I /saluted Skellington, and then /bowed to the other party members in turn.

At this time, most of them were still lying dead.

@_@;;

Evidently, my /bows to their fallen corpses was taken as a rather insulting gesture by members of their party.

In retrospect, I can see now how that could be taken in such a way.

However, my sincere intent was the complete opposite;
I truly wished to show these people respect for their valliant but ill-fated battle.

The more I've mulled it over in my mind, the more I wish I had simply /kneeled respectfully.

I felt like a complete *** and a first-rate heel for having inadvertently offended these people.


The realization that my /bows had this effect only came some time later, when members of our party were communicating with members of their party in /tell (they had regrettably Escaped and left after being raised).


I tried sending /tells to the party members myself, to explain that I honestly meant no disrespect, and that I was deeply sorry to have offended them.

The only one who responded to me was the JP Samurai, Akihisa, and through the use of a few english words, and the auto-translator, I conveyed my true feelings, and regret, and he conveyed that he held no hard feelings and appreciated the Raises.

(I later learned that Skellington was simply AFK when I tried to /tell him, and wasn't blowing me off)




A short time later, I recived a tell out of the blue from someone named Joboms.
I recognize the name, having seen it before, I know her to be a Dragoon, but otherwise I do not know her and have had no previous acquaintance with her.

She asked me if we had gotten the drop after "stealing Ose".

I explained that, no, we did not get the drop, nor did we "steal" Ose.
I went on to explain that the other party got wiped out, and there was nothing we could have realistically done to aid them, lest we take aggro ourselves and been unable to defend ourselves.
But that after all of them had died and Ose went unclaimed, our party claimed it.

She said we were asses for bowing to corpses (it was only me, and I honestly didn't realize I was offending anyone when I stupidly did it) and that we only raised one person.

I explained that it was only I who had bowed, and that I didn't mean it as an insulting gesture.
I also explained that we raised every one of them, not just one person.

She went on to say that I should show more consideration for people who had helped me in the past (I assume this is a reference to the Rank 6 missions), and that she (Joboms) wanted nothing to do with my "ige party" and that we were /blisted and to never expect nor hope to party with her.


Well, I dont even know Joboms, apart from having seen her somewhere before, and I never expected nor held any aspiration to party with her.
I level with my own static party of close friends, and never expected to level with anyone else.

However, I was baffled at her calling us an "ige party" (her exact quote).
I wondered if that was a typo for something I couldn't make out, or if she was actually accusing us of either working for IGE, or being their customers.

I attempted to reply to her, to suggest that since she clearly did not have all the facts straight, she was judging us unfairly, but I think by that time I was already blacklisted, or else she simply ignored me and did not bother to respond.



Being ******* out by someone I don't even know, who wasn't even there, for something that was unavoidable but which still left all of us feeling uncomfortable, really left me feeling very bad.
I'm sure Joboms whould be happy to know this.

Whoever she is, I don't particularly have a great deal of respect for her since she was not even controlled or mature enough to be willing to engage me in civil discussion, but chose instead to dismiss me and /blist my friends based on hearsay alone.


Nevertheless...

I don't know if any of the aforementioned people ever come to these forums, nor if they will ever see this, but I had to get this experience off my chest, because it has left me feeling very uncomfortable, and I truly wish there had been, or will yet be, a more emotionally satisfacory (for everyone) conclusion.

I'd have to agree with Argonaut. In all the posts I've seen you make, Ten, you've been very thoughtful and polite.

An online forum like FFXI will always have plenty of room for miscommunication and misunderstandings, and it is inevitable that we'll all run into these occasionally.

I know Davenger, so next time I run into him, I'll direct him to this thread so he can hear your side of the story, and make up his mind then. I'm sure that everything will work itself out for the best.

'Til then, take care of yourself, and take heart. ^^

Coming from the perspective of a relatively "green" player, (despite having over 10 months of FFXI under my belt..) I think that what you did FOR that familiar party was wholly honourable and completely without contempt. I understand how terrible it feels to have people feel insulted or offended by your innocent gestures. Even though you have no connection to that person in reality, the fact that you've disappointed someone really sinks deep. I hope the party killed by Ose holds nothing against you, and understand that your intentions were good.

I know that if I was in the position of the fallen party, I might be dissapointed that the fight did not prove successful, and maybe I'd be a little short-tempered because I died and didn't manage to retrieve a sought-after item, but if an ally raised me, bowed to me and spoke civilly, I certainly would not take it as an offense. I'm not entirely experienced when it comes to fighting NMs, but I know that the real thrill for me is just seeing if I could beat it in the first place. If not, then I probably wasn't ready to recieve the item it promised. I have absolutely no hard feelings towards anyone who would stand on the sidelines and watch me die to an NM. I'd understand completely, and wish them well if they undertook the challenge in my wake.

Cheer up, Tenmiles. This is just one incident of miscommunication, and the people at fault are probably just disappointed by the outcome. These things happen. Best not to dwell on the negatives. ^_~

Cheer up now, or I shall mercilessly poke you until you do...
/poke /poke /poke /poke
/crack!

O_O!!! Omigod, ow ow ow ow!! My finger! What kinda armour are you wearing?!

T_T

Edited, Tue Dec 7 08:15:50 2004 by Psylight

*looks at score slip to default chuckling* Dear god was it something I said? Shall indeed keep my thoughts to myself from this point on, very sorry to whomever I have offended.

Hi Tenmiles,
I've seen your name around a lot, and it always seems to carry with it a profound amount of respect and goodness. While I myself have been guilty of jumping on someone else's case for "messing with a friend" of mine though the situation had absolutely nothing to do with me, it is the wrong action to take.

What's important is attempting to reconcile yourself with those that you've offended, and only then. There is no reason for you to apologize to or even speak with Joboms. Joboms wasn't there, nor does he seem to have all the facts.

He is simply one of those people that thinks they can throw their weight around simply because many people might recognize that name.

Really and truly, don't take it to heart though. I'm sure that the people that you inadvertently offended will understand and the problem will be resolved. Beyond that, though, you have no obligations toward Joboms.

Best wishes,
Pax

I can understand your position Tenmiles. I have always been quick to throw cures to people in need. If someone (non-gil seller) is fighting an NM and losing, I will throw a cure 2 or 3 to make sure he wins. But that's just me.
In any case, people make mistakes in the game, and most of us know you didn't have any bad intentions. As people were saying before, it's their loss, not yours ;o)

yo bro^^ i really wouldnt stress myself over it too much you know that we know that you meant nothing by it, and we know that you know that, that drg knows that you know...nvm...you didnt do anything wrong brudda and we're all behind ya ^^ (one at a time please)

...cyz later cool cats

Hey bro, right now i feel like an *** as well. I remember you were on the boat with your friend Moonkat i beleive and me and my friend Watusa were also there and i accidentally voked ur friend's mob, she didnt mind because it was a pugil, but then a crab spawned and i did not know that she was after an item and then me n watusa were acting stupid that day lol because we were "rapping" to eachother because it was really funny and all of a sudden he started rapping to yall and i joined i donno why, i want to apologize to you and Moonkat after you being nice to me by letting me /follow you onto the boat while i was afk.

I hope you accept this and i hope i'll see you again ingame, maybe i'll send u a /tell one day.

Take it easy.

-Falo

That was such a facinating story... I'm terribly sorry about the misunderstanding, but please don't let it rest too heavily on yourself. Such events happen, and because you made your aplologies, perhaps gone unheard due to spite, you still made them, thus shouldn't let yourself feel too bad over this. Your well spoken apology is a testament to the essance of purity, and I much admire you for it ^^

If you feel so inclined, I would appreciate that effort.

To me, the worst thing is to accidentally develop an adversarial relationship with people you don't even know, and have them believe you to be someone completely different from who you actually are.

If I do something unequivocally wrong, and duly incur the hatred of the person who was wronged, then that is my karma and I have earned it.

But to have people who don't even know me decide that they don't like me, particularly based on an honest mistake, is a painful thing.
Moreso if or when such people feel, in their righteous indignation, like spreading their bias to those they know ("I'm telling everyone I know to /blist you"), it creates unneccessary ill-will among people who might otherwise enjoy a civil and respectful relationship with one another, or at the very least, leave each other alone and not have anything either good or bad to say of them.


Anyway, if you were able somehow to persuade her to read this, or to consider speaking with me and setting her bias aside for a time and consider the possibility that I am not an evil person, I would be perfectly willing to forgive her assumptions about me and start again at square one.

Hello,

The 'name' part of who is posting this is unfortunately mistaken (and I won't go into why), but this is Shari -- I'm in a static party with Davenger, and I was present when this event happened.

I've been pretty good friends with Kysha, the RDM that Davenger referred to as Kiera or Keira, for a little while -- Kysha being a party member in Tenmiles' LS and static. Ridri, another member of that party, helped my entire static long, long ago do our Genkai 1, completely out of the blue. Tenmiles and Nairne I don't know as well, but they have always treated me kindly, and were fantastically patient when we were trying to wrap up Windurst 6-2.

The event happened, as far as I am aware, just as Tenmiles described. Certain members of my party were feeling very irritated when it happened -- it was late, and we thought we were on the verge of winning vs Ose. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'd be really rather surprised if anyone from my group thought that Ose had been *stolen* from us -- I'm not sure where that came from at all. In party chat, some of the party were upset that this other party we sort of knew, Tenmiles', didn't help out when they could, as we believed we would have done for them. This to my knowledge describes the issue much more correctly than anything involving 'stealing an nm.'

I am aware of the etiquette involving nms that says every man and woman for him- and herself. For that reason, I was perfectly willing to allow myself a moment of loser's irritation, and go on with my night. However, Kysha messaged me almost immediately with a thoughtful discussion of how she felt, and what her party was talking about. She apologized when strictly speaking, she didn't have to. She took time out of her night to talk to other members of my party, and I took time out of my night to try to talk to my party as well (I was amused when because of this, I began to take some of the heat from my party!). Ridri also sent me several nice messages.

It does feel painful and unpleasant when people you consider friends watch you die. I make no claims as to whether doing so is right or wrong. What I would claim is that it is kind and gentle to try to open a discussion with someone after that has happened. And this is precisely what Tenmiles' party did.

I believe that whatever anyone thinks of nms and etiquette, that it cannot be questioned that Kysha, Ridri, Tenmiles and company showed integrity and thoughtful sympathy in their messages to us after the incident. Misunderstandings happen, and the test of a person's mettle is how he handles things *after* a misunderstanding -- for to expect everyone to never have a misunderstanding is foolish.

I for one have nothing but respect for anyone who cares enough to always consider his friends. So Kysha, Ridri, Tenmiles and that gang, indeed that LS, are OK in my book, and I'd trust any of them with my little tarutaru life.

Even Sillia, who eats babies.

Shari

Word gets around, doesnt it?

/joy

Huzzah! glad to hear it's all good now.