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Casinos (please give me your input)Follow
I found that giving people that chance to test their luck with the 999 sided die has been a quick and effective way to make gil. I haven't been doing this long but I don't think I am gonna do it much longer. People almost hate you when they lose and I even had one person shout that they were going to Blist me because I was running a casino. Why are those that gamble not looked down upon then, I don't get it. Is this business such a bad thing? I don't buy or sell gil but if the casino business is similarily a looked down upon business why would those holding up a shop get chewed out while gamblers aren't. This guy who was going to Blist doesn't even know me >< Oh well, he will probably be the first person to ever Blist me ^^ Thanks for your comments.
It's just the /random [Insert some digit] that shows up on the screen that gets irritating.
Other than that, spamming ads can get annoying with /shout.
It's more better to do it in /say *Hides in the corner*.
Edited, Thu Feb 3 15:58:21 2005 by Roukii
Other than that, spamming ads can get annoying with /shout.
It's more better to do it in /say *Hides in the corner*.
Edited, Thu Feb 3 15:58:21 2005 by Roukii
I always just /blist the casino people, and do my best to avoid Lower Jeuno overall. It's not that I get overly angry at them, and it's not anything personal, but all the spam makes me lag like mad, so it's just easier to blist and if I ever see them again in PT or something I just take them off, no big deal.
The only thing that bothers me is all the people that complain about getting scammed at the casino things, I mean... that's pretty much what a casino is: a place to get scammed, because no matter how much you win, in the end the House always takes the pot. Just a known fact, otherwise casinos wouldn't stay in business for very long. Getting scammed is a risk that you take when you enter into it, it should be understood that this is always a possibility.
So basically, I don't think it's anything personal when someone blists you because you run a casino, it's just either
1. All of the chat spam makes them lag.
2. They don't play casinos and don't need to hear "ROLL 599-999 TO DOUBLE YOUR BETS!!!" 200 times while looking for something under the AH.
3. The ones that run the casinos are the ones shouting, while usually those playing are in /say or /tell, so you don't hear them as much, though I really wish /blisting them would get rid of all the random.
To anyone that hates casinos and all the spam: Stay out of Lower Jeuno, there is an AH in Upper, Port, and in Ru'Lude.
To those that run casinos: Please please please please please just stay in Lower Jeuno.
The only thing that bothers me is all the people that complain about getting scammed at the casino things, I mean... that's pretty much what a casino is: a place to get scammed, because no matter how much you win, in the end the House always takes the pot. Just a known fact, otherwise casinos wouldn't stay in business for very long. Getting scammed is a risk that you take when you enter into it, it should be understood that this is always a possibility.
So basically, I don't think it's anything personal when someone blists you because you run a casino, it's just either
1. All of the chat spam makes them lag.
2. They don't play casinos and don't need to hear "ROLL 599-999 TO DOUBLE YOUR BETS!!!" 200 times while looking for something under the AH.
3. The ones that run the casinos are the ones shouting, while usually those playing are in /say or /tell, so you don't hear them as much, though I really wish /blisting them would get rid of all the random.
To anyone that hates casinos and all the spam: Stay out of Lower Jeuno, there is an AH in Upper, Port, and in Ru'Lude.
To those that run casinos: Please please please please please just stay in Lower Jeuno.
I always /blist anyone /shouting their casino "services" since I will never need their "services." I don't tell the person I am blacklisting them, I just do it. I guarantee that if you have run a casino you have been blacklisted by multiple people. You're creating needless spam in an area that already has enough. I don't blacklist people shouting their teleport service because I might want them to teleport me someday. I don't blacklist someone shouting for help for a mission/quest/key hunt because I may want to do the same mission/quest/key hunt or I may just want to help the person. But I have no desire to frequent a casino and anyone that runs one is not someone I want to associate with. Thus, if you shout for your casino while I'm in the zone, you just earned an instablist from me.
Well, you're going to get several kinds of resentment running a casino.
1. People who don't want to be bothered with all the shouts and rolls are going to get annoyed. I happen to fall into this category, tho I have yet to actually /blist someone for it because almost as annoying as your shouts are all the rolls and reactions from the players.
2. People who lose are going to be upset. That's understandable but their own fault. Caveat emptor.
3. People who object to gambling in and of itself are going to see you as preying on the ignorant. Which of course you are. The odds always favor the house, and the game is rigged to make you money, not the players. As such, you look like a con man to many people. Frankly I blame this on the people who spend their gil on your services just as much as I blame you.
Ultimately, if you wanna offer a casino, and other people want to frequent it, its no business of mine what two people agree to do with their gil. I would rather make my gil from the game then by ripping other people off, but everyone has to make their own choices. But the fact that people aren't going to like you doing it is a reality. You have to decide for yourself if making money this way is worth what it does to your rep.
Edited, Thu Feb 3 21:45:59 2005 by widenorg
1. People who don't want to be bothered with all the shouts and rolls are going to get annoyed. I happen to fall into this category, tho I have yet to actually /blist someone for it because almost as annoying as your shouts are all the rolls and reactions from the players.
2. People who lose are going to be upset. That's understandable but their own fault. Caveat emptor.
3. People who object to gambling in and of itself are going to see you as preying on the ignorant. Which of course you are. The odds always favor the house, and the game is rigged to make you money, not the players. As such, you look like a con man to many people. Frankly I blame this on the people who spend their gil on your services just as much as I blame you.
Ultimately, if you wanna offer a casino, and other people want to frequent it, its no business of mine what two people agree to do with their gil. I would rather make my gil from the game then by ripping other people off, but everyone has to make their own choices. But the fact that people aren't going to like you doing it is a reality. You have to decide for yourself if making money this way is worth what it does to your rep.
Edited, Thu Feb 3 21:45:59 2005 by widenorg
Casino operators often puts on the friendly facade of "giving poor player a chance to double / triple their money at a moment's notice". However they often fail to let the players know the real odds of winning their "fair games".
Casino are not charities, and they never will be. On a roll from 1 - 999, almost all casino operators have the winning roll listed above 600, some even at 700. Given the statistic principle, out of all the games you play, you will likely win 40% or 30% of the time, losing 60% to 70% of the times on average. (given a large sample size, usually > 100 bets as a start.)
With the odds favoring the house (casino operators), it is obvious that the players will lose in the long run and fattening the casino operators. This consitutes malicious intend on its own right.
Also, I value hard work instead of luck streaks and despise people who sit around all day and wishing for easy money. In this case, the easy money is taken from gullible players.
Also we have to note that many of the players are under the age of 18, with even a greater percentage under 21. That is the legal gambling age for the State of New Jersey (for Nevada I believe it is 18).
Casino are not charities, and they never will be. On a roll from 1 - 999, almost all casino operators have the winning roll listed above 600, some even at 700. Given the statistic principle, out of all the games you play, you will likely win 40% or 30% of the time, losing 60% to 70% of the times on average. (given a large sample size, usually > 100 bets as a start.)
With the odds favoring the house (casino operators), it is obvious that the players will lose in the long run and fattening the casino operators. This consitutes malicious intend on its own right.
Also, I value hard work instead of luck streaks and despise people who sit around all day and wishing for easy money. In this case, the easy money is taken from gullible players.
Also we have to note that many of the players are under the age of 18, with even a greater percentage under 21. That is the legal gambling age for the State of New Jersey (for Nevada I believe it is 18).
On the topic of gamblers who frequent those establishments. They are victims lured by the casino operator's enticing ads.
Are they unwise? Yes. Do they deserve to lose their gil to the casino operators? A firm No. Many players in this game are minors who haven't even finished High School. We cannot blame them for what they have fallen prey because of their lack of decision making experiences.
There are unwise players by the boat load in every game and they make unwise decisions at every turn. But exploiting them is more than unethical, it is sadistic.
Are they unwise? Yes. Do they deserve to lose their gil to the casino operators? A firm No. Many players in this game are minors who haven't even finished High School. We cannot blame them for what they have fallen prey because of their lack of decision making experiences.
There are unwise players by the boat load in every game and they make unwise decisions at every turn. But exploiting them is more than unethical, it is sadistic.
I hate casinos for 2 reasons really:
1) Just more spam. I like sitting in lower jeuno cause I never know when someone's gonna shout to do something I might want to take part in, and inevitably there's a flame war, tele-spam, or casino spam, and I don't need any of it
2) soar losers. Omg, people FREAK when they lose sometimes, screaming 'scam' and whatnot. Just today Richtor shouted against rawtaru claiming him a scammer. Yeah, and you're a MPKer, what makes you any better eh? At any rate, their screaming of being scammed brings me to reason 3
3) can't trust them. Let's face it, you're giving money to a complete stranger. You can't honestly expect to these people to hold true to their word. For this reason I'm stunned people are so suprised they've been scammed.
1) Just more spam. I like sitting in lower jeuno cause I never know when someone's gonna shout to do something I might want to take part in, and inevitably there's a flame war, tele-spam, or casino spam, and I don't need any of it
2) soar losers. Omg, people FREAK when they lose sometimes, screaming 'scam' and whatnot. Just today Richtor shouted against rawtaru claiming him a scammer. Yeah, and you're a MPKer, what makes you any better eh? At any rate, their screaming of being scammed brings me to reason 3
3) can't trust them. Let's face it, you're giving money to a complete stranger. You can't honestly expect to these people to hold true to their word. For this reason I'm stunned people are so suprised they've been scammed.
Might have been said, can't see it though... it's 1000... it goes from 0-999 (might go 1000 but I've never seen it, but I know you can roll 0).
I may get rated down for going against the grain, but ***** it, here goes:
I am 100% in support of peoples' right to run casinos, if they choose. This is not because I like to gamble, nor is it because I run my own casino. I will never patronize one and I will never run one. But this is because I don't have any faith in my own luck, not because I'm opposed to the casinos themselves.
To the people who dislike the extra spam: I absolutely agree, 110%. The last thing Lower Jeuno needs is even more people spamming junk to clog up our chatlogs. But, as I support free speech in the US even while disagreeing with the views some people choose to express, I also support everyone's right to use /shout however they see fit. Those annoying guys who like to bother us by shouting "spam spam spam" for 40 lines? Good for them! They just get onto my blist, that's precisely why it exists. Rather than shouting at people to stop spamming (thereby creating more spam), simply typing "/blist add spammer" is quick, efficient, and quiet. Spam is a bother, but there's nothing we can do about it with a clear conscience.
To those who claim that casinos are a scam: Duh. Of course casinos are a scam; that is how they profit. Anyone who has taken math to a 6th grade level can tell you that a 40% chance of winning does not constitute good odds. Even most children, if they are old enough to understand and play this game, are smart enough to know that the casino is going to take their money, if they persist in patronizing them.
To those who specifically object to casinos taking advantage of young children who play this game: You may say that children have underdeveloped decision making skills, and so it's unfair for casinos to take advantage of that for their own gain. Once again, absolutely correct. This is why it is illegal for children to gamble. Realize the context of this discussion, though: FFXI. A game world. People who lose gil in FFXI to a casino have (quite fortunately) really lost nothing at all. In fact, in the case of younger people, they have probably learned a valuable lesson. Much better that they should lose some gil in Lower Jeuno than that they should turn 21, take a road trip to Vegas, and gamble away their graduation gift because they have no experience of the folly of gambling. If these kids' parents aren't teaching them about gambling and why it's a bad idea, then it's a wonderful thing that they gamble in FFXI. They'll learn their lesson the hard way, and not actually lose anything at all. I'm not saying it's good for casinos to prey on these kids, specifically, but they're not really hurting anything.
So I say, more power to the casinos. While I don't think gambling is a good thing, I am very glad to see that players have made this world completely their own. They saw a niche and filled it, working outside the box (the auction house). It gives the world (IMO) a little more verisimilitude; Lower Jeuno sort of feels like an old marketplace, with people hawking their various wares and "services." I think it's great. And if it gets too laggy for me, my blist just gets a little bigger. No skin off my back.
I am 100% in support of peoples' right to run casinos, if they choose. This is not because I like to gamble, nor is it because I run my own casino. I will never patronize one and I will never run one. But this is because I don't have any faith in my own luck, not because I'm opposed to the casinos themselves.
To the people who dislike the extra spam: I absolutely agree, 110%. The last thing Lower Jeuno needs is even more people spamming junk to clog up our chatlogs. But, as I support free speech in the US even while disagreeing with the views some people choose to express, I also support everyone's right to use /shout however they see fit. Those annoying guys who like to bother us by shouting "spam spam spam" for 40 lines? Good for them! They just get onto my blist, that's precisely why it exists. Rather than shouting at people to stop spamming (thereby creating more spam), simply typing "/blist add spammer" is quick, efficient, and quiet. Spam is a bother, but there's nothing we can do about it with a clear conscience.
To those who claim that casinos are a scam: Duh. Of course casinos are a scam; that is how they profit. Anyone who has taken math to a 6th grade level can tell you that a 40% chance of winning does not constitute good odds. Even most children, if they are old enough to understand and play this game, are smart enough to know that the casino is going to take their money, if they persist in patronizing them.
To those who specifically object to casinos taking advantage of young children who play this game: You may say that children have underdeveloped decision making skills, and so it's unfair for casinos to take advantage of that for their own gain. Once again, absolutely correct. This is why it is illegal for children to gamble. Realize the context of this discussion, though: FFXI. A game world. People who lose gil in FFXI to a casino have (quite fortunately) really lost nothing at all. In fact, in the case of younger people, they have probably learned a valuable lesson. Much better that they should lose some gil in Lower Jeuno than that they should turn 21, take a road trip to Vegas, and gamble away their graduation gift because they have no experience of the folly of gambling. If these kids' parents aren't teaching them about gambling and why it's a bad idea, then it's a wonderful thing that they gamble in FFXI. They'll learn their lesson the hard way, and not actually lose anything at all. I'm not saying it's good for casinos to prey on these kids, specifically, but they're not really hurting anything.
So I say, more power to the casinos. While I don't think gambling is a good thing, I am very glad to see that players have made this world completely their own. They saw a niche and filled it, working outside the box (the auction house). It gives the world (IMO) a little more verisimilitude; Lower Jeuno sort of feels like an old marketplace, with people hawking their various wares and "services." I think it's great. And if it gets too laggy for me, my blist just gets a little bigger. No skin off my back.
TRoach wrote:
I may get rated down for going against the grain, but ***** it, here goes:
I would hope you do not get rated down. While I personally don't agree, your arguments are valid and well presented. Forums like this are intended to foster friendly discussion and debate, and I hope we are all rational and intelligent enough to listen to opposing viewpoints and not rate people down for the sole reason of not agreeing with them ^^
Generally speaking if you run a casino I will just /blist add yourname here, I hope you never need a raise :) Theres enough spam and shouting floating around in the game without annoying casinos going on. I also once had (And I guess still do) have a RL gambling problem so I must resist your offer to make me rich
:-( I am sad to see that people would rate me down on this post like they did. I really wasn't sure how the general population viewed this topic since it is such a prominant business and I wanted to know. But if that is a reason in itself to rate people down then ***** the rating system. In game I want to be known as someone with integrity and I care to know what may bother people. I am not going to do the casino thing anymore because I don't want to be Blisted by any more people. I wish I would have never gotten into it.
"I am 100% in support of peoples' right to run casinos, if they choose. This is not because I like to gamble, nor is it because I run my own casino. I will never patronize one and I will never run one. But this is because I don't have any faith in my own luck, not because I'm opposed to the casinos themselves."
Even though I am against gambling, but I do agree with TRoach that people do have their right to run casinos and name whatever unfair odds they can come up with. However, I will continue to /blist the casino operators.
Even though I am against gambling, but I do agree with TRoach that people do have their right to run casinos and name whatever unfair odds they can come up with. However, I will continue to /blist the casino operators.
27 posts
LOL I dont care, i just hate the spamming sometimes. I actually like to see people gamble their gil away while im lfp, It amuses me.
I just /blist anyone I see running a casino. I...don't have yet to regret it (I think I partied with someone who ran a casino once in my entire FFXI career, so I'm not too worried).
If I may quickly, though, there is one place you shouldn't run a casino, ever: EXP parties. I partied with a certain Tarutaru once and in the middle of a chain, he decides to open up a casino...in Quicksand Caves. I'm all for themed Casinos (Hey, that's what Vegas thrives on), but...come on. There's a time and a place for everything, and it's called "LFG in Lower Jeuno."
If I may quickly, though, there is one place you shouldn't run a casino, ever: EXP parties. I partied with a certain Tarutaru once and in the middle of a chain, he decides to open up a casino...in Quicksand Caves. I'm all for themed Casinos (Hey, that's what Vegas thrives on), but...come on. There's a time and a place for everything, and it's called "LFG in Lower Jeuno."
I tend to view players who make their gil through casinos as just slightly above players who buy their gil. You aren't doing anything against the ToS, or anything that hurts the game by running a casino. But then again, you're really not adding much value to the game either.
Unlike other gil raising activities, casinos don't do anything to add value to the community or offer a service to anyone. It merely acts to redistribute gil among the participants and the casino owner.
Consider what some of the other gil raising activites accomplish:
- Farming: makes more crafting materials and equippable items available to the community
- Mining/Logging/Harvesting: makes more crafting materials available
- Crafting: makes more "end products" (such as equippable items, food, and even intermediate crafting materials) available
- Teleports: helps players save time by getting to their destinatio more quickly
- Quest/Mission Mercenary help: helps players accomplish milestone tasks
In all of the above transactions, both sides "win", because they come away with something of benefit. However, with casinos, someone has to lose in order for someone to win. With the other gil raising activites, playing time has been used to add value to the player community as a whole. With casinos, the only thing accomplished is some gil shuffling.
Unlike other gil raising activities, casinos don't do anything to add value to the community or offer a service to anyone. It merely acts to redistribute gil among the participants and the casino owner.
Consider what some of the other gil raising activites accomplish:
- Farming: makes more crafting materials and equippable items available to the community
- Mining/Logging/Harvesting: makes more crafting materials available
- Crafting: makes more "end products" (such as equippable items, food, and even intermediate crafting materials) available
- Teleports: helps players save time by getting to their destinatio more quickly
- Quest/Mission Mercenary help: helps players accomplish milestone tasks
In all of the above transactions, both sides "win", because they come away with something of benefit. However, with casinos, someone has to lose in order for someone to win. With the other gil raising activites, playing time has been used to add value to the player community as a whole. With casinos, the only thing accomplished is some gil shuffling.
Lyonheart, you make a great point and I appreciate your input. Basically casinos are mindless and virtually effortless attempts to make gil quickly. They may not add anything to the community like other gil obtaining services but they do not hurt it like the gil selling business. If anything, it just adds spam in the chat window when visiting lower jueno. Thanks and cya around!
I dunno, it can probably be fun.
The odds are, of course, stacked against you. That's the point really, all casinos do it as it's the only way they can survive. People know they've got a good chance of losing their gil, but they'll still be enticed by the chance of increasing it and maybe just do it for the thrill.
If you really want to make gil on them, whether you're an operator or a player, you need to play the odds, be a statistician. It's a computer program so if you roll 999 times, there's a fairly high chance it'll roll each number once (then again, the odds reset each time so maybe not).
I don't mind the occassional casino shout, they need to advertise it after all. What I find more annoying is that they say the odds and generic "congratulations" or "that's too bad ; ;" messages afterwards, which they could just as easily do in /tell.
I once played on a casino where I saw the odds were completely in my favour. Won double my money (only bid 5k), never bet again*.
(*quit while you're ahead. If you win triple your 100k, do you really think your chances of tripling your 300k are high? And don't play if you can't afford to be scammed or lose the gil ^^)
The odds are, of course, stacked against you. That's the point really, all casinos do it as it's the only way they can survive. People know they've got a good chance of losing their gil, but they'll still be enticed by the chance of increasing it and maybe just do it for the thrill.
If you really want to make gil on them, whether you're an operator or a player, you need to play the odds, be a statistician. It's a computer program so if you roll 999 times, there's a fairly high chance it'll roll each number once (then again, the odds reset each time so maybe not).
I don't mind the occassional casino shout, they need to advertise it after all. What I find more annoying is that they say the odds and generic "congratulations" or "that's too bad ; ;" messages afterwards, which they could just as easily do in /tell.
I once played on a casino where I saw the odds were completely in my favour. Won double my money (only bid 5k), never bet again*.
(*quit while you're ahead. If you win triple your 100k, do you really think your chances of tripling your 300k are high? And don't play if you can't afford to be scammed or lose the gil ^^)
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