Okay, as I'm sure we've all noted, there's plenty of bitterness in the air about how gil sellers have killed our economy, prices are too high, and all sorts of assorted other complaints. On the brighter side, there seem to be many people who want to find a solution.
But what troubles me is that so many of you are going about this completely the wrong way. You're looking at it from your perspective; how it's detrimental to your gameplay. I'm here to hypothesize, that maybe, just maybe, SE couldn't care less whether or not you're having as much fun as you could. SE is a corporation out to make a profit. Don't get me wrong; there are probably many individuals who work at SE who want to make your gaming experience enjoyable. But you see, these people, more likely than not, are not in charge of marketing or PR.
SE gave us a game. We pay 13 bucks a month to play this game. But hey, you all know that. What's important to note is that the gil sellers fall into the grouping of "we". They pay 13 bucks a month as well to play this game. Putting aside the ToS for a second, player A's legit account has no more value to SE than player B's gil selling account.
Now, let's reel the ToS back in. It clearly forbids the selling of gil, loopholes be damned. They could very easily get rid of the gil sellers if they cared to by utilizing the "we reserve the right to ban your account at our discretion" part of the EULA. Yet, they don't; that account is paying them 13 bucks a month after all.
But you might ask, "why even have a clause against gil selling in the first place? They must care!" Let me draw up a scenario for you in which that clause does not exist. A player, let's call him Cloud, is the owner of a Kraken Club. On his server, a Kraken Club goes for...I dunno, 17 million gil. One day, SE has to do a rollback of Cloud's server. Sadly for Cloud, this rollback brings him back to a point where he not only has the club, but not the gil to buy it either. Cloud is understandably pissed. Ah, but there is hope! IGE has 17 million gil going for 1000 dollars. Cloud gets it in his head to sue SE for the time spent attaining 17 million gil. As IGE can be used to establish a real world exchange rate for gil to dollars, Cloud's victory is not completely implausible. It would probably be thrown out by any judge, but hey, it could happen. Let's say it does happen. Sets a precedent. Now, Vincent wants the time he lost on his Scorpion Harness back and wins his case. Red wants compensation for his Royal Cloak. So on, and so forth.
Since all SE has to write a paragraph to prevent this possibility, they decide to take this effortless precaution. Now seeing as I'm not CEO of SE, I can't say if this is true or not, but it's the explanation I've come up with for that clause being there. Take it as you will.
So, back to the point: SE doesn't care about a legit player any more than it cares about a gil seller so long as they're paying the same amount of money. So, what solution does this leave us with? I got one for you.
Quit. I'm dead serious. Quit and send a letter explaining why you quit. If you want to do something about gil sellers, go straight for SE's wallet. They don't care about our petitons; they know full well that the majority of you are going to keep paying them no matter what. If you want to send a message, send it to their finance department. If they lose enough money because of gil sellers, I guarantee they will do something. They'd be idiots not to.
But of course, the majority of people will not quit, myself included. So here we are. Me, I'm not too worried. I managed to deal with Sega's apathy towards dupers in PSO, I'm sure I'll get through this.
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Okay... well I'm sitting here right now helping a friend and I see this post. Very interesting perspective. Personally I will not quit even though a lot of good people have lately. For some reason the gilsellers never bothered me (botters do though and they are not all gilsellers) and I have no problem pretending they don't exist.
Unfortunately I think the skyrocketing prices are great. Except for some reason elemental ores have gone to crap, so gardening has not been as fruitful lately. Maybe gilsellers caused it, maybe all the posting on how to grow ores did.
Anyways, the reason I like the high prices is because the items are worth so much more. A month ago I had no reason to go and camp and good NM because the items were worth next to nothing. Now all of a sudden I feel like camping LL again. Or SC's for that matter. I can actually make easy money again.
In a way the gilsellers are leading to their own inflation and making people want to camp the items rather than buy the gil. Which is fine with me. Because if you think about it, even if gil prices are dropping, item prices are rising so they are getting less for their money. Which is also fine with me. And if I remember right... the prices now still aren't as high (may be totally wrong) as they were when I started this game, which was the NA release day. In fact... I think a few months ago people were complaining how cheap things were.
I personally have never bought gil. I know that I have been accused of it though. I know a lot of people have been lately. It almost seems as if gilselling paranoia is taking over. All the teleporters are putting 'non-gilseller' in their shouts. People are spamming shouts for teleports because they blacklist every suspected gilseller there is. If someone all of a sudden has a new high-priced piece of equip they are a gil-buyer. It's absolutely insane.
What ever happened to farming and camping? Please don't say the gilsellers beat you cause that just isn't so. People are getting too lazy to farm nowadays. Those people are the ones buying the gil. If a level 12 can kill Leaping Lizzy then anyone can be rich... especially now. I guess what I'm trying to say is that patience is a virtue.
Anyways... the only other way to do this is even more simple than quitting. JUST DON'T BUY THE GIL FROM THE GILSELLERS. Otherwise you are right... SE will do nothing so...
Watch your friends... see how they get their items. If you know someone buys gil stop playing with them and tell everyone you know to do the same. Don't support them anymore. The economy is only what we let it become.
Unfortunately I think the skyrocketing prices are great. Except for some reason elemental ores have gone to crap, so gardening has not been as fruitful lately. Maybe gilsellers caused it, maybe all the posting on how to grow ores did.
Anyways, the reason I like the high prices is because the items are worth so much more. A month ago I had no reason to go and camp and good NM because the items were worth next to nothing. Now all of a sudden I feel like camping LL again. Or SC's for that matter. I can actually make easy money again.
In a way the gilsellers are leading to their own inflation and making people want to camp the items rather than buy the gil. Which is fine with me. Because if you think about it, even if gil prices are dropping, item prices are rising so they are getting less for their money. Which is also fine with me. And if I remember right... the prices now still aren't as high (may be totally wrong) as they were when I started this game, which was the NA release day. In fact... I think a few months ago people were complaining how cheap things were.
I personally have never bought gil. I know that I have been accused of it though. I know a lot of people have been lately. It almost seems as if gilselling paranoia is taking over. All the teleporters are putting 'non-gilseller' in their shouts. People are spamming shouts for teleports because they blacklist every suspected gilseller there is. If someone all of a sudden has a new high-priced piece of equip they are a gil-buyer. It's absolutely insane.
What ever happened to farming and camping? Please don't say the gilsellers beat you cause that just isn't so. People are getting too lazy to farm nowadays. Those people are the ones buying the gil. If a level 12 can kill Leaping Lizzy then anyone can be rich... especially now. I guess what I'm trying to say is that patience is a virtue.
Anyways... the only other way to do this is even more simple than quitting. JUST DON'T BUY THE GIL FROM THE GILSELLERS. Otherwise you are right... SE will do nothing so...
Watch your friends... see how they get their items. If you know someone buys gil stop playing with them and tell everyone you know to do the same. Don't support them anymore. The economy is only what we let it become.
And I want to apologize in advance for anyone I upset with this posting. I just wanted to give my opinion and if you hate me for it then I'm sorry.
Scholar
48 posts
to put it simply, here is something in regards to the amount of money SE made from their online games:
Sales in Square Enix's online game division, supported primarily by Final Fantasy XI, neatly doubled compared to the same period last year, from 3.8 billion yen ($36.5 million) to 7.6 billion yen ($73 million). The company realized a hefty profit margin in that area of its business, too, with an operating profit of 3.2 billion yen ($30.7 million), which is nearly four times what it earned in the first half of its last fiscal year.
As for the gilsellers, SE is not going to do anything about it... you know that, I know that, and they know that. It's been repeated time and time again... don't buy into the "gotta have it... it's gotta be the shoes..." mentality... don't buy gil from the various gil-selling sites.
Oh yeah... or else they complain that all the good farming locations are over-camped. Sure... that's what happens when you have that many people on a server at once. We are all trying to find things to farm that will sell... both quickly and for a good enough price.
I would like to mention that it was mentioned to me by a friend that that there are also the practices of price-jacking going on too... this was mentioned in another thread about the sudden hump in prices over certain items. The Morion Earrings I think were the item... one person went into the AH... bought them all at the 80k price that they typically sold for and then relisted them with a 350% mark-up... and people were buying them still.
Is this messed up? Of course it is... at least for those who didn't have an issue paying 80k before and are now pretty much being forced to pay 270k if they want the earrings. Otherwise they have to camp the NM themselves (this price has dropped down to about 100k since last week though).
Hell, I'm looking at the price for the Forest Stone and trying to figure out how I'm going to come up with 750k for this item that I'd like to have. Otherwise, I go into the BCNM50 in Horlais and try to get it there. Do I want to pay that kind of gil for it? Not really... but when you want MP, you do what you can to give yourself an edge if at all possible.
So in the end, for SE it's about showing a profit... just as it is for any business. For the players, it's all about whether or not the mentality of "gotta have it" continues to stick or not. Personally, it's not the gear that makes someone great... it's how they play the game. You don't have to have the "it" items... I've seen several people with these items that suck... and I've seen even more people without these items who rocked. Too bad the majority seem to be stuck in the mindset that these items must be had to be any good.
To quote who knows... "it's not the size that matters, it's how you use it" ^_~
Quote:
Sales in Square Enix's online game division, supported primarily by Final Fantasy XI, neatly doubled compared to the same period last year, from 3.8 billion yen ($36.5 million) to 7.6 billion yen ($73 million). The company realized a hefty profit margin in that area of its business, too, with an operating profit of 3.2 billion yen ($30.7 million), which is nearly four times what it earned in the first half of its last fiscal year.
As for the gilsellers, SE is not going to do anything about it... you know that, I know that, and they know that. It's been repeated time and time again... don't buy into the "gotta have it... it's gotta be the shoes..." mentality... don't buy gil from the various gil-selling sites.
Quote:
People are getting too lazy to farm nowadays.
Oh yeah... or else they complain that all the good farming locations are over-camped. Sure... that's what happens when you have that many people on a server at once. We are all trying to find things to farm that will sell... both quickly and for a good enough price.
I would like to mention that it was mentioned to me by a friend that that there are also the practices of price-jacking going on too... this was mentioned in another thread about the sudden hump in prices over certain items. The Morion Earrings I think were the item... one person went into the AH... bought them all at the 80k price that they typically sold for and then relisted them with a 350% mark-up... and people were buying them still.
Is this messed up? Of course it is... at least for those who didn't have an issue paying 80k before and are now pretty much being forced to pay 270k if they want the earrings. Otherwise they have to camp the NM themselves (this price has dropped down to about 100k since last week though).
Hell, I'm looking at the price for the Forest Stone and trying to figure out how I'm going to come up with 750k for this item that I'd like to have. Otherwise, I go into the BCNM50 in Horlais and try to get it there. Do I want to pay that kind of gil for it? Not really... but when you want MP, you do what you can to give yourself an edge if at all possible.
So in the end, for SE it's about showing a profit... just as it is for any business. For the players, it's all about whether or not the mentality of "gotta have it" continues to stick or not. Personally, it's not the gear that makes someone great... it's how they play the game. You don't have to have the "it" items... I've seen several people with these items that suck... and I've seen even more people without these items who rocked. Too bad the majority seem to be stuck in the mindset that these items must be had to be any good.
To quote who knows... "it's not the size that matters, it's how you use it" ^_~
And it's not necessarily people that are willing to pay the markup for the items that are causing the price hike. People are buying and selling to themselves with their mules to make it look like others are buying for that much. So then people start buying for that much because someone and their mule have been buying and selling the only available items to jack the prices.
First, massive rate up for Xaelis. Its nice to see someone actually take a rational look at why its not going to change and finally answer the 'then why have the rule' argument as well.
You're 100% dead on with the EULA Xaelis. Having worked at two software developers you wouldn't believe the crap I have seen put into EULA's and the reasoning for it all. It all boils down to one great comment a programmer once made in a meeting to the legal people "we want it in there because either some idiot is gonna try it and break everything and blame us, or some genius is going to discover that he can break everything and we didn't cover our asses".
You and Niekon are both also 100% right about the money end of things. An account is an account is an account to SE, it's $13 to the bottom line. They don't care where it came from. Like I tell teenagers when they complain about working in 'lame' jobs...its green money and it spends the same. What do you care whether it came from McDonalds or The Gap? SE doesn't care either.
I've suggested this before....and I think it bears re-stating. Gil sellers actually HELP SE's bottom line by inflating prices. Higher prices = more farming required = more time spent farming and less time spent leveling = more time in game = longer player commitment = longer income potential from that player. It also translates into the 'need' for a mule or multiple mules to house all the crap you get while it sells. So the end result to SE is a net gain... Players who might have left after hitting level 75 in 6-8 months now stay for 12-18 months and they are paying $13 plus $3-5 more per month for mules..so instead of 8 months at $13, SE is getting a commitment of 12 months at $20. You think they're gonna complain? Or cut off that revenue stream? Get real.
I think the whole price jacking thing is pretty funny actually. Especially the growing rage over it. Apparenlty some people haven't spoken to all the NPCs in teh various towns. There is at least one NPC in each and every starting city that tells you the secret of making money is in the AH and you do it by "Buying low and selling high!"......ok so now you're mad at people for taking the advice the game gives them?
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm kinda ticked over the balls-out greed they are exhibiting. But i'm in no way shocked at the idiocy of so many players who don't see what's going on and pay the insanely inflated prices instead of just sitting on their gil while these morons get all their items sent back because they didn't sell. That happens a couple of times and prices will plunge right back down to 'normal' rates.
It just amuses me no end how many people are guilty of helping to create the problem, and then complain about it.
I also agree with Xaelis that if it's really bringing you down so much.. QUIT. Honest to god kill the account, the content ID and uninstall that sucker. Write your "Dear SE, I quit becuase of gil sellers" letter and be done. You will have ZERO impact on anything but maybe you'll feel better.
I saw great numbers on EQ today... 450,000 unique players, over 1 BILLION annually in revenue. and for all 5 years they've been around, Plat has been available on line to buy. lets say 5,000 people (a huge number to get to agree on anything) actually all quit and sent a letter to SOE saying currency sales are why. SOE would yawn, collect their Billion bucks and release a new expansion that adds 20,000 new players. SE is no different.
Edited, Mon Nov 22 16:42:54 2004 by airamis
You're 100% dead on with the EULA Xaelis. Having worked at two software developers you wouldn't believe the crap I have seen put into EULA's and the reasoning for it all. It all boils down to one great comment a programmer once made in a meeting to the legal people "we want it in there because either some idiot is gonna try it and break everything and blame us, or some genius is going to discover that he can break everything and we didn't cover our asses".
You and Niekon are both also 100% right about the money end of things. An account is an account is an account to SE, it's $13 to the bottom line. They don't care where it came from. Like I tell teenagers when they complain about working in 'lame' jobs...its green money and it spends the same. What do you care whether it came from McDonalds or The Gap? SE doesn't care either.
I've suggested this before....and I think it bears re-stating. Gil sellers actually HELP SE's bottom line by inflating prices. Higher prices = more farming required = more time spent farming and less time spent leveling = more time in game = longer player commitment = longer income potential from that player. It also translates into the 'need' for a mule or multiple mules to house all the crap you get while it sells. So the end result to SE is a net gain... Players who might have left after hitting level 75 in 6-8 months now stay for 12-18 months and they are paying $13 plus $3-5 more per month for mules..so instead of 8 months at $13, SE is getting a commitment of 12 months at $20. You think they're gonna complain? Or cut off that revenue stream? Get real.
I think the whole price jacking thing is pretty funny actually. Especially the growing rage over it. Apparenlty some people haven't spoken to all the NPCs in teh various towns. There is at least one NPC in each and every starting city that tells you the secret of making money is in the AH and you do it by "Buying low and selling high!"......ok so now you're mad at people for taking the advice the game gives them?
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm kinda ticked over the balls-out greed they are exhibiting. But i'm in no way shocked at the idiocy of so many players who don't see what's going on and pay the insanely inflated prices instead of just sitting on their gil while these morons get all their items sent back because they didn't sell. That happens a couple of times and prices will plunge right back down to 'normal' rates.
It just amuses me no end how many people are guilty of helping to create the problem, and then complain about it.
I also agree with Xaelis that if it's really bringing you down so much.. QUIT. Honest to god kill the account, the content ID and uninstall that sucker. Write your "Dear SE, I quit becuase of gil sellers" letter and be done. You will have ZERO impact on anything but maybe you'll feel better.
I saw great numbers on EQ today... 450,000 unique players, over 1 BILLION annually in revenue. and for all 5 years they've been around, Plat has been available on line to buy. lets say 5,000 people (a huge number to get to agree on anything) actually all quit and sent a letter to SOE saying currency sales are why. SOE would yawn, collect their Billion bucks and release a new expansion that adds 20,000 new players. SE is no different.
Edited, Mon Nov 22 16:42:54 2004 by airamis
I really don't understand what people think SE can really do about this.
Ban suspected gil sellers? What if they are not really gil sellers?
Ban proven gil sellers? How do they prove it?
Nerf everything they think the gil sellers profit off of? The gil sellers will just make gil some other way.
I think that SE is very limited as to what they can do. I think if they used desperate measures to try and power this problem away it would be ineffective. Then we would have still have gil sellers + an oppressive ffxi environment instead of the easy going environment that I personally enjoy.
Ban suspected gil sellers? What if they are not really gil sellers?
Ban proven gil sellers? How do they prove it?
Nerf everything they think the gil sellers profit off of? The gil sellers will just make gil some other way.
I think that SE is very limited as to what they can do. I think if they used desperate measures to try and power this problem away it would be ineffective. Then we would have still have gil sellers + an oppressive ffxi environment instead of the easy going environment that I personally enjoy.
I gave you a rate up for such a valid point. Kudos.
I gave you a rate up for being Mithra.
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